Thursday, January 19, 2012

Korean Women and Western/White Men: a Complicated and Troubled Relationship

This is a follow-up to my previous post about the heavily gendered imbalance of power within Korean society. For more on this issue, check that out this essay written by a teenaged Korean girl studying at an English-language high school in Seoul, which is impressively articulate and insightful. 

After a few months of living in Korea I realized that there was a stock set of questions that many people would ask me. Introductions usually involved questions about my nationality, hometown, marital status, age, religion, college major, etc. Other than the “Why aren’t you married yet?” questions, that all seemed like pretty much what I expected.

And sometimes people would also ask, with a sly grin, what I thought about Korean girls. 

I’m a white American guy, so the general assumption in Korea is that I must be insanely drawn to Korean women. Several middle-aged Korean businessmen even went so far as to loudly and proudly proclaim their belief that Korean women are the most beautiful in the world, and then turned to me to ask me if I did not agree. They seemed to really want some validation, of some kind. (Note that many Koreans are steeped in a highly  racialized national/postcolonial inferiority complex. As well as scary ideas about "racial purity."This line of questions made me deeply uncomfortable. I told them that I think there are beautiful women everywhere in the world, which is true.

I thought that the idea that women, as people, can be divided up and ranked by nationalities in terms of race/nationality was pretty twisted, but I heard this more than a few times. That whole situation also kind of falls into the whole Korean illogical nationalism meme. Many Koreans are intensely proud of anything Korean, and love to expound upon this ardent belief. I did find it surprising, however, that this included a male Korean pride in the beauty of Korean women. I can’t imagine telling anyone that I think American girls are somehow “better” than women from anywhere else…Or, god forbid, white girls...

After reading B.R. Meyers though, I get it. The dudes were probably just expressing their pride in the beauty of the "pure Korean race." An idea I find horrifying, but that many older Koreans really believe in

The whole scenario also made me uncomfortable because I didn’t like being stereotyped as another yellow-fever skirt-chasing white guy living recklessly and hedonistically in Korea. Xenophobic Korean political groups like Anti-English Spectrum love to publicize propaganda about how white men come here to corrupt and take advantage of Korean women, and how “90% of the white men in Korea are villainous human garbage.”

There is a long tradition of Koreans being embarrassed and upset about relationships between Korean women and Western men. This goes back to painful memories of the Korean War. In the 1950’s the country was destroyed and many people were starving. Some Korean women sold themselves to American soldiers as a way to survive. The stigma of that commonly seen spectacle has only recently begun to lift in Korean culture, and still many older Koreans get upset when they see Korean girls with Western guys. I have a Vietnamese-American friend who lives in Seoul, and many people assume that she is Korean, because she looks Asian. When we go places together I find myself met by hostile stares on the subway, walking down the street, and when we go into shops. Despite the fact that we speak only English together, and that she sounds quite American, us just spending time together makes people really angry. And we are just friends; it’s not like we make out on the sidewalk. Nevertheless, Korean people really think that I am another “bad” foreigner here to help myself to Korean women. And they are pissed.

It is true that there are lots of young Western guys in Korea that are interested in Korean women. And there is nothing wrong with that, in general. Love often blossoms across national, cultural, and racial lines, and that in of itself is a beautiful thing. It is expected and healthy to come to a foreign culture with a curiosity about its people, and part of that curiosity might be an interest in dating someone from another culture. Personally, I’m a white American guy, and my girlfriend is ethnically South Asian, with parents from Pakistan. (She’s Canadian.) I am a big believer in multiculturalism, and getting to know people outside of your own group. The world would be a better place if we all tried to learn more about each other. And, as an American, I firmly believe that the diversity of my country is among its greatest cultural assets. Learning about other cultures, and meeting people who don’t look like you is profoundly enriching.

But what has always troubled me here  is the shallowness of lots of the relationships that I see going on between Western men and Korean women. There is also a really troubling imbalance of power going on – one that Western guys, quite frankly, take advantage of too often. As someone commented below, the privilege of both whiteness and masculinity is greatly magnified in Korean culture. I can't help but feel that a significant chunk of the white guys that love living in Korea love it because they love enjoying a level of white male privilege that the West has not afforded them for several generations. (See my post "What if Don Draper Were Korean?" for more on that.)

Now this is a broad generalization, and so is dangerous. Obviously not everyone is like this, but I am writing about what I see every day, and this is a big part of expat life in South Korea.

If you come to Korea as a white Western man, you bring with you various forms of social, cultural, economic, and political power. First of all, you speak English fluently – which is an obsessively sought-after status symbol in Korea. Koreans would kill for your English, because if they could speak English like you they could have everything they want in life. That in of itself is incredibly intimidating to many people. 

Also, you bring with you all the power of whiteness. This power is so vast, and complicated, and operates in such pervasive and subtle ways that it is almost hard to describe. White people grow up knowing that people who look and sound and live like them run the world. Our culture is incredibly dominant. Companies and governments and organizations that were built and are run by white people control most of the money and power in the world. Whiteness is also almost always the standard of beauty in almost all cultures. Millions of people around the world put damaging creams on their skin, and poisonous chemicals on their hair, because they are desperate to appear more European-looking. 

I do not mean to suggest that whiteness has power in Korea in the same way that it does in the West. Or that white people control everything in South Korea, although the country has always existed as a US client state. The US government bankrolled and directed much of what went on in South Korea for decades - under some really brutal dictatorships, which is part of why many Koreans dislike Americans. However, Koreans always have and always will control Korean society.  

Having said that, the power of whiteness is greatly magnified in Korea, because Korean culture often suffers from Pinkteron Syndrome  - and buys into some scary ideas about racial inferiority and blood-based Korean racial "purity." Conversely, Korea often discriminates against people with darker skin. These preferences and prejudices, and the structural racism they create, exist in Korea because they are perpetuated by Koreans. Whiteness does have great power in the West, and many other parts of the world. That is also true in Korea, but it is true because of how Koreans perceive things through a very specific racial lens. The twisted ways that many Koreans think about race and racial identity is crucial in how whiteness plays out in daily life in South Korea.   

And chances are, if you’re a Westerner your country has a lot more power and respect in the world than South Korea. This is especially true for Americans. Basically you come from the most powerful group in the most powerful society in the entire world. Your presence is inherently commanding and connected to lots of viscerally powerful things in the global political economy, whether you realize it or not. Most Koreans are scared of speaking English - especially with someone with a white face. Koreans are often literally scared of interacting with white people, for a host of reasons. Whiteness is both deeply envied and deeply resented in Korea, but it always holds great power. 

And if you are a white Western guy in Korea that wants to date Korean women, then you are going after the most stepped on group in society in a fairly oppressive and sexist culture, in a country that has not much power in the world. There is a HUGE imbalance of power there.

Of course Korean women have some say-so in who they want to date. Lots of Korean women want to date a foreign guy. They see Westerners as having a lot of things they want in life: good English, knowledge about the West, possibly more money, a culture that allows them a lot more personal freedom. And it also helps that they have been watching movies and TV shows and looking at magazines their whole lives that are filled with good-looking Western celebrities. It’s exciting for East Asian people to meet white people sometimes, simply because they are used to only seeing us on TV. When Americans go to China people take their pictures at bus stops, because they are such a curiosity. Many young Korean people also wish they could be more like us, because we seem to have a lot more freedom and happiness in life. Plus they often feel insecure about their bodies, and wish they looked more like us. Witness the vast industry in double-eyelid plastic surgery and other painful attempts to create white-looking features on Asian bodies.

Westerners, especially Americans, are raised to be individualistic, confident, and to speak boldly about their opinions and their desires in life. Korean women, on the other hand, are traditionally raised to be demure, polite, submissive subordinate, obedient, and respectful. Of course, I know Korean women – some of the best friends I have made here – that are very independent and outspoken. But they are bucking the trend, and refusing to submit to a traditional Korean marriage. And they are hated on and judged by lots of people. They also probably have huge fights with their families about not living an “acceptable” life.

Lots of things come out of all this. For one thing, mediocre-looking, or downright fugly white guys – most of whom work in sub-professional English teaching jobs - are able to come to Korea and date women who are attractive, successful, and way out of their league. Successful Korean women may just be "dating" a foreign guy because they are bored, but many of the guys do mop up this attention. This is a legit phenomenon, and one that every Westerner living in Korea has observed firsthand. So many Western guys come here and really wanna date Korean women that the expat ladies have a really hard time dating. Some of them get really depressed about it, and compare themselves to super-thin, impeccably-dressed Korean chicks that they couldn’t possibly look like. I have a few close female American friends that are having a terrible time meeting expat guys, because so many of them are off trying to date [or sleep with] a million Korean girls.

But to me what is most profound and disturbing about the whole Korean-girls-Western-dudes thing is the power imbalance. The white guys just have SO much power and privilege, and they enjoy it way too much. It seems like they get way too much of whatever they want. They gloat it in. They are fawned over, and sought after, and they feel like gods here. I know a Canadian guy whose relationships back home in Toronto were all disasters, and who was too insecure to get laid. But in Korea he is dating an attractive marketing professional, and has hooked up with tons of willing Korean chicks, and now he never wants to go home – where he would just be another average guy. That is really sad to me, because all these relationships are pretty shallow. With the language/culture barrier in place, I just see him having a bunch of physical encounters that don't seem to mean much. Also, I can't imagine feeling like my options for relationships and personal life in general are better in Korea than in the West. I had tons of great, interesting, smart, creative friends back home, and a great social life. I just didn't have any money. In Korea, I have the reverse problem. Who comes to South Korea and feels suddenly cool, sexy, and popular for the first time? 

Many Westerners in Korea have also watched their foreign male friends date Korean women, and get away with cra-azy shit that no woman would put up with back in their own countries. Right now I know a Canadian guy who has been married to a really nice Korean woman for a few years. And he treats her like total shit. He insults her, and embarrasses her, and condescends to her constantly. Basically he is just a really insecure dude, and I think he enjoys feeling superior to his wife way too much. He talks shit to her about Korea, jokes about how white people run the world, lords his mastery of English over her, and totally dominates their home. English is his first and only language, while his Korean wife speaks three. Now that is some deep racial shit, as well as being bound up in the tortured manifestations of gender.

And simply put, this is what has always bothered me about a lot of the white guys in Korea. I have watched really lame guys come here, guys I would never wanna hang out with, and basically take their pick of women. Many Koreans assume that Korean girls are only using them for free English lessons, and maybe some are. (They also may call them whores, but that's another story.) It just really turns my stomach to see these insecure, lame, emotionally messed up dudes, capitalizing on, exploiting their status as white Western men. Plus lots of them are just assholes to their girlfriends and wives, who are generally better-looking and often smarter than them. After all, their relationships take place almost exclusively within the bounds of the English language. To be completely honest, ever since I came to Korea I have had a hard time making male expat friends. Lots of the guys here just rub me the wrong way, or seem dull, or arrogant, or insecure and jealous. They seem to be here for all the wrong reasons.

So what is it that attracts insecure, emotionally troubled white men to Korea? The answer to that question lies in the ways that Westerners often view Asian people, Asian cultures, and Asian bodies. Asian chicks are fawned over in the West because they are often seen as thin, cute, and submissive. And let me say this clearly: the Asian fetish so many white guys hold near and dear honestly scares the hell out of me. It is creepy as shit.

I never wanted to date submissive women, because I like hanging out with funny confident chicks that have interesting opinions, so this psychology is really alien to me. But generally, it seems to me that lots of Western guys who are deeply insecure about their masculinity seek out relationships with Korean women because they want a woman who they think will be weak and passive. I see lots of Western guys here bullying, dominating, insulting, and generally treating Korean girlfriends in really shitty ways. But because of the language barrier, and because Koreans are not taught to speak up for themselves – girls especially, most of the time they don’t get called out for being shitty boyfriends.

I have to say, watching this shit go down really turns my stomach. It’s also extremely embarrassing to me. Because I am a white guy, and I look like these douchebags, and I am tired of being assumed to be one of them. 

I also feel sorry for Korean women who wanna date outside their culture, and who may not know what they are getting into when they start dating a controlling and insecure white guy. Our cultures are so different that Koreans have a hard time understanding Western people’s personalities sometimes. Plus, Korean women are being chased by all these weirdos that want them to be symbols of submissiveness and regressive gender roles, rather than real people. As so often sadly happens to Asian American women in the West, I fear that many of them get into relationships with men that fetishize and abuse them. And that is just inhuman.

I never came to Korea to look for a submissive wife, or to chase passive Asian girls, or relive my adolescence, or exploit the power of whiteness, or boost my weak ego about being male. I just wanted to live overseas, meet new kinds of people, learn about the world, and teach English, and have a decent job. But these guys make me look like shit. And no one calls them out on it.

161 comments:

  1. I've also noticed what you just described and it's been only 4 months that I'm in Korea...While I have seen korean women with some total white douchebags...I also know korean women that are dating some pretty cool expats...fortunately! However, korean guys with expats..it's extremely rare and I'm wondering why. I'm a female expat and I often have the feeling that korean guys are totally afraid of me, and I don't think it's an attractive issue. Anyway, thanks for your blog, I like it! Julie

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    1. Ive seen a lot of Asian guys with white women... although they were usually Chinese guys. Maybe those Korean guys were just nervous or intimidated. I have male Asian friends who love white women and want to date one but they're too nervous to ask a girl out.


      Anyway on a different note, I don't think any country is more attractive or better than another. However if I had to vote, I would not pick Korea. My pick would be the likes of Sweden, Denmark, Russia, Serbia, Croatia, France, Portugal and Argentina or something... thats just from what ive seen!

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  2. "And if you are a white Western guy in Korea that wants to date Korean women, then you are going after the most stepped on group in society in a very oppressive culture, in a country that has not much power in the world. There is a HUGE imbalance of power there."

    I'm not seeing the issue here. Korean men oppress Korean women, so white men should think twice/feel guilty about dating them? To... allow the oppression to succeed? To make sure Korean women don't realize they're being oppressed? To avoid attracting the ire of Korean men?

    I've been in Korea for 6 years, and I'm married to a Korean woman. What I have realized, and anyone else in a lasting, meaningful relationship with someone from another culture has realized, is that you represent yourself, and yourself only. I'm not 'white people', or 'white men', or 'British men'. I'm myself. My wife is not 'Koreans', or 'Korean women'. She's herself. Seeing someone as primarily an example of their race, culture, religion, age, nationality, or any other single factor is to read the subject far, far too simplistically.

    Douchebag white guys who treat Korean women as though they're disposable do so not because they're white, or young, or American, or Canadian, or British. They do it because they're douchebags. Naive young Korean women who date douchebags don't do it because they're young, or Korean, or oppressed. They do it because they're naive.

    And naive young women have dated young douchebag guys in every culture for as long as the human race has existed.

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    1. Well culture stems from race and culture is crucial when establishing moral standards. Coming from a more liberal culture results in a more liberal moral stance. American culture and European cultures tend to be more liberal and therefore very conservative cultures (like Korea's) tend to seem "oppressive." However, Koreans don't actually feel oppressed. Furthermore, next time you interact with an individual of a different culture with a language barrier between you, consciously think about how you act and compare that with how much more comfortable you feel conversing or having an exchange with someone of the same culture, national origin, and ethnicity. There is always going to be a fundamental connection with one's culture that anyone born outside of the culture will never understand no matter how long they study it and this is why it's difficult to be in an interracial relationship or marriage (as evidenced by the divorce rate of interracial marriages).

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    2. Well said. Nothing wrong with that.

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    3. Thumbs-up to the Feb 2nd post.

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    4. I agree with the Feb 2nd post. I think the author of this article has very little knowledge of Korean women at all. I am married to one and can tell you that they may appear shy and submissive in public but every Korean women that I know is far from the meak push-over you make them out to be. They generally wear the pants

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  3. But to me what is most profound and disturbing about the whole Korean-girls-Western-dudes thing is the power imbalance. The white guys just have SO much power, and they enjoy it way too much. It seems like they get way too much of whatever they want. They gloat it in. They are fawned over, and sought after, and they feel like gods here. ... Plus lots of them are just assholes to their girlfriends and wives, who are generally better-looking and often smarter than them.

    If some Korean women tolerate their white partners' demeaning and boorish behavior in large part only because the women want to date white men, then these women are not as smart as you think they are. Consenting adults often wind up in relationships with partners who somehow complement them. How much sympathy should we have for someone who is so vapid as date someone else largely on the basis of race? Also, who cares about these women's physical qualities relative to those of their partners? In the end we all end up as shriveled husks, and based on the appearances of so many ajummas, I can say that some people much sooner wind up as shriveled husks than others.

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  4. Your chum from Canada has two choices: go back to Canada and live a lonely life, or enjoy companionship and sex with attractive women in Korea. It's "sad" to you that most of his relationships "seem shallow"? So you've appointed yourself moral arbiter of his life, and if it were up to you you would banish him back to a life of loneliness? I agree no-one should be a douche to their partner, but who are you to judge other people's happiness or the appropriateness of relationships you know nothing about?

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    1. This is so true. Do YOU go fishing where the fish don't bite?

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    2. I wrote this post about a broad smattering of real people that I know, and have known, in real life in South Korea. I do know about their relationships. A LOT about them. And I think the phenomena this post speaks to are very real, and fairly pervasive.

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    3. So that Candadian guy has been rejected by his whole country? Not one woman in Canada wanted him?! I'm sorry (hysterically laughing)but that's the most pathetic thing I've ever heard!

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    4. umm... the point was not that he HAS been, but rather he THINKS he has.

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    5. "umm... the point was not that he HAS been, but rather he THINKS he has". Seriously?! Who cares? Am I the only one that is going to tell it straight? The real reason these crybabies are depressed and lonely is because they want what they can't have, period. It's called dating women who are within your own match. You guys sound like those dorky nerds that were depressed and upset that they couldn't get the head cheerleader in High School. You guys complain and talk about getting the beautiful, intelligent, sophisticated, etc. woman. And all of you are are ALL THAT? Come on! Wake up man!

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  5. I fully see your rant here, and it's warranted. Cheers for seeing the other side of an issue when you could choose to hog power yourself :)

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  6. Good post. I am in a similar situation to you in that I have a hard time finding male friends here and, being in a relationship with an American girl, am able to watch the white guy/Korean girl dating scene (and white guys here in general) with a grimace.
    I would add one point though, and that's that as white guys NOT dating Korean girls it's easy for us to sit back and rather complacently congratulate ourselves on not misusing our white privilege. But in fact, in every other aspect of our lives, we walk around surrounded by a huge cloud of shiny whiteness. It's really quite hard for us to know the real extent of just how often we are treated more kindly, given more trust, more readily given the benefit of the doubt, etc. etc., because of our skin. The only thing we can do it just bear it in mind, and try not to let it go to our heads!

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  7. The Korean women in your world seem like one dimensional victims. They don't have agency, no power over their choices. That kind of world view seems to reinforce the submissive stereotypes you argue against.

    There is also considerable potential for turnabout. How many 'successful' Korean women are really dating white men? I would argue that 'successful' Korean women are an extreme minority among the Korean women dating white men. A great many Korean women dating white men are more marginal types, including less attractive women from working class backgrounds that have family members that would accept an inter-racial relationship because the available Korean option is much worse. That goes for older Korean women, too.

    I also think that attempting to apply the theory of white privilege (which only ever makes sense in the American context even if you accept the theory) to Korea is fallacious. There are plenty of downsides to being white in Korea. Those downsides may even be greater than the upsides - it is too close to tell, so it doesn't constitute 'privilege'.

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    1. I agree with you, matt@occidentalism. The author is partaking in the very thing he condemns, and so is only proving himself to be a moron. Unlikely Expat, I advise you to put aside your cartoon-like views of Korean women and Western men. If you recognize that it's a complicated issue, then instead of repeating 'power vs. submission' as if they're all engaging in some communal sadomasochism, try being a little less juvenile. Most things are not black and white.

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    2. Agreed. How many dorky loser foreign guys do you see with 'creme of the crop' white women in the US? Yup, exactly. Same over there. I was in Korea on a work-related stay. Loser dorky guys with loser Korean women. Definitly non I would date. Hey, you can get those over here! Take your pick, White, Black, Latina, Asian, etc. Personally, nothing beats a beautiful blond in my book. But then again, I don't talk trash about white women either. These guys are self-hating. Pathetic. Kind of like black guys that talk trash about black women. They all want white women because they 'think' they're more submissive, compliant, feminine, etc. Same kind of stereotypical crap.

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    3. Do you realize that by being so quick to identify your ideal type purely based on an aesthetic that you are falling into the same manner of thinking?

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    4. Couldn't agree more,matt@occidentalism... As a successful woman(with a decent job and a good background in terms of money and schooling ) in Korea, I have never wanted to date even "white" English teachers( no offense intended) and so have my friends. Another example of "taste a little bit and know everything" type.

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  8. I am willing to bet dollars to donuts 80% of this post comes from the OP not riding the "gravy-train" he believes his fellow male expats are.

    Yes, being white is great in Korea, unless you want to get a real job. How many members of the Korean government are white? What about Samsung board members?

    The OP sounds more like some bitter date-less wonder who has decided to cloak his anger and jealousy in some left-wing guilt over "white privilege in Asia" and "gender imbalance".

    But don't worry! As his last passage tell us, he's "one of the good ones" you know! Not like one of those dirty liberal arts majors that date Korean women (While *GASP* living in Korea, who would have thought?!) Thanks for allaying our suspicions OP. I was really afraid you weren't pure and righteous there for a second. Truly a prince among expats. I'm sure Korea appreciates your Herculean efforts on their behalf.

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    1. "And there is nothing wrong with that, in general. Love often blossoms across national, cultural, and racial lines, and that in of itself is a beautiful thing. It is expected and healthy to come to a foreign culture with a curiosity about its people, and part of that curiosity might be an interest in dating someone from another culture. Personally, I’m a white American guy, and my girlfriend is ethnically South Asian, with parents from Pakistan. (She’s Canadian.) I am a big believer in multiculturalism, and getting to know people outside of your own group. The world would be a better place if we all tried to learn more about each other."

      Seems to me like OP has a girlfriend, isn't "bitter" about not getting a date, and is just discussing some issues seen in dating culture within Korea, while talking about his belief that love blooms across borders such as race and culture, as he said.

      Are you male, anonymous? Does it hit a bit too close to home? If you are a white male, is it gratifying coming to a country where you are considered some kind of a rock star based on the fact you are "different" when you probably had issues getting dates back home?

      Weird, empty baseless assumptions, yes? Yet, I guess I can make them because I know nothing about you but OP talks about his life frankly here.

      Honestly. Dealing with idiots sometimes....

      Interesting post, OP. Good to see a different perspective out there.

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    2. ::Yes, being white is great in Korea, unless you want to get a real job. How many members of the Korean government are white? What about Samsung board members?::

      Are you fucking stupid, for a homogenous society with a long history of Korean pride and blood why would they want a white person in South Korea to serve the government?! Besides most Americans I have met in Korea don't know the Korean language THAT WELL. There are more than enough Americans who stay in Korea for over 5 years without knowing how to read or write Korean....

      And Duh AGAIN Samsung is a South Korean conglomerate, Cheobeol, with strong Korean FAMILY roots going back to the Japanese Annexation why would they want foreigners entering into their official board.

      Man do some research before making ignorant claims

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    3. That was precisely the point...it's called using rhetorical questions, i.e. questions to which the answers are already known (and in case you didn't get that, the answers to the two questions in the statement you cite are "zero" and "zero").

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  9. Finally, I'd just like to interject that I detest the OP's snide classist jab at the man who speaks only English and who's successful girlfriend speaks three. Most Koreans don't speak anything besides Korean that great either unless you come from a very well off family. Many Americans have little or chance to learn another language when they are growing up because the options in public school are generally Spanish or nothing, and the opportunity to study abroad in another country is prohibitively expensive. I can go 1000 miles in any direction from my hometown and everyone still speaks English. I guess if you are rich and can afford to send your kids across the Atlantic or something you have a great shot, but for most people that's not an option.

    So, I guess, screw this guy for daring to be American and coming from a less than wealthy home. I guess screw her too, because even though she can have a successful career and speak three languages, she seemingly can't make her own decisions about dating, just needs (white) expats with their enlightened ideas to show her the true path.

    Maybe the reason he finds he isn't making many male friends around here is because he opens a conversation with them about how oppressive they are for teaching English and daring to date local women. I wouldn't want to hang out with someone who assumes I'm some kind of racist stereotype either. At least some bigoted Koreans have the excuse that they don't know many white people in general. I think I'll take bigotry from ignorance over spineless hand-wringing any day.

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    1. Whoa, whoa, whoa. I come from a fairly humble background myself there chief. I grew up in a small town in Appalachia with kids that didn't finish high school or have running water in their house. And then I put myself through college working three jobs and living in violent ghettos. I actually qualified for affirmative action programs, though I am as white as anyone (in terms of skin color). I know all about not being economically privileged, and I think it's probably fair to say that I'm a lot more conscious of race/class issues than most middle class white Americans. Which is a fairly large demographic of the Western expats in Korea.

      If it makes you feel better, I don't really speak a second language either. But I also didn't come to Korea feeling insecure about myself as a man, and looking to boost my ego on some Asian adventure. Which I think a lot of white dudes in Korea may have done, consciously or unconsciously.

      I don't think that all white guys who date Asian chicks, in Korea or anywhere else, are horrible evil people. Or whatever. I do think, emphatically, that there is a lot of very troubling crap going on in Korea's expat dating scene. The fact that most of my Western female friends also think this, and are deeply bothered by it, makes me think there must be some validity to this observation.

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    2. I think this whole coversation is pointless. Everyone here seems to be in the mindframe that korean women are somehow retarded. That they cannot make theor own choices. In America a guy will go after whatever types of women he wants. The same as a woman. Guess what's in Korea? Korean women!! Stop dissing on other people. I've been to Korea for years and it is not as bad as you make it out to be. You sound like some drama off KBS. Women mnake their own choices, and I'm sure its not because he is a white dominant man.

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  10. White privilege doesn't just exist in Korea: it's magnified. Anyone who has navigated a hagwon environment, for example, knows that white people are employed as avatars of Standard English and Western culture. POC are defined by the color of their skin far more openly and unhesitatingly than in the US. Surely no one can dispute this?
    Korea has been, in many ways, culturally colonized by the US and part of that is that it's inherited the US's structures of racism. The stereotyping of black people I see in my adult students' conversations and stage performances is a facsimile of US racism. The corollary of this is that Korean people also revere whiteness and white culture. I realize the starkness of this statement, and I would never question a Korean's pride in being Korean or suggest that Korean people want to BE white - but when an entire class of adult students confess to me that they would never had signed up to my class had I been a POC native speaker, what other conclusion can I come to than that my students love my whiteness?
    Surely this is no secret? As another blog points out, Korean people love appropriating black culture, but without the black people. To a man, my students will giggle when South East Asia is mentioned. There is an awkward silence when they find out my girlfriend is Vietnamese-American.
    To repeat my point, does it not follow that Korea is in love with whiteness? Some still believe that white people are victims of 'racism' in Korea. The use of this word when, for example, an old man gets angry at someone, or they are served slowly in a restaurant, is laughable when compared to the depth of meaning in actual racism. Isolated incidents of prejudice simply do not amount to systematic racism. The truth is quite the opposite: whiteness is a boon in Korea. It takes magnanimity to recognize it, accept it, and deal with it.
    On the same note, I don't think the OP is condemning all white guy/korean girl relationships, and I think he would be perfectly open to one himself, were he single (though maybe I'm just projecting my own stance onto his). Rather, I think he would say that it's imperative for white people in Korea to address their position in this wider social/racial picture.

    Finally, to address on point directly: "There are plenty of downsides to being white in Korea. Those downsides may even be greater than the upsides". I would be genuinely interested to hear what you think the downsides of being white in Korea are. Personally I believe that the occasionally awkward thing I encounter has more to do with language problems or my foreign-ness than my whiteness. On the contrary, I would say that my whiteness COMPENSATES for my foreeign-ness.
    I would also say that it is one of the features of privilege that it hides itself from those that have it. We have had white privilege since the day we were born and so we simply don't see how it operates. It's my opinion that there are many 'upsides' that exist which you simply don't notice (and nor do I, unless I look with real scrutiny).

    I think I might have repeated myself a few times in this, so thanks for your patience.

    Oh, and at the risk of going on far too long, leaving race aside and talking about gender: I want to say that I agree with the comment that this article steps very close to ignoring the agency of Korean women, and being a little condescending... when we see a beautiful Korean woman walking down the street with a lumpy-faced white man, we have to remind ourselves that we know NOTHING about their relationship or its power balance; we simply cannot assume anything.

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    1. "when an entire class of adult students confess to me that they would never had signed up to my class had I been a POC native speaker, what other conclusion can I come to than that my students love my whiteness?"

      Seriously? It's not the fact that you're white that they preferred; it's the fact that many other English-speaking people who aren't white are perceived to have accents that aren't "standard" English. Plus, the association abroad that America = white people still prevails such that even if you speak English, if you're not white, you're perceived to be a non-American English speaker. These folks want to learn American English, and if they perceived that only white people speak (and can teach) American English, then guess who they're going to perceive to be the better teacher. It has nothing to do with your whiteness, pasty-face.

      Whiteness is not a boon in Korea, but in fact a marginalizing factor. Try as you might, you could never actually get a real job or hold serious social power. As a previous poster noted, how many members of the Korean government are white? How many of Samsung's executives or department heads (and we're not talking its overseas operations)? How many Korean lawyers, or physicians and engineers, are white? Anyone with a serious job in Korea that requires more than the mere ability to speak (and this is not the same as the ability to teach) English is Korean, not white; and no white man stands a chance at getting any of these careers in Korea (and I would go so far as to posit that many white men who go to Korea to teach English have few prospects at similar careers in English-speaking countries either).

      Your perceptions, as you yourself have noted, are unbalanced, though via rationale beyond your feeble reasoning.

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  11. Hi @ Feb 8, 2012 08:28 AM

    I gave some concrete examples on the latest post. Media bias, etc.

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  12. this post is full of assumptions on top of assumptions. There is no validity in any of your arguments and it seems to me that you have little to no, real understanding of the korean culture.

    And seriously, what is up with the white power thing? Please stop asserting that asian women want to look like western women. just because some may get plastic surgery to ENHANCE themselves - it does not mean they want to look more white... new flash, women all over the world get plastic surgery: including white women! Honestly, when white women dye their hair black or dark brown, does that mean they want to look asian? NO. When white women tan their skins does that mean they want to look asian? No. When white women get nose jobs for a smaller nose, do they want to look more asian? NO. This should be common sense...

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    1. I’m not advocating white power. Far from it. I’m saying it’s a crying shame that so many people in Korea - and Asia - undergo expensive and painful plastic surgery to try to look more like white people. Instead of feeling good about themselves and their bodies, they way they look naturally.

      Why does surgically “improving” one’s appearance in Korea almost always involve surgery that is designed to create white features? Why are advertisements and beauty images in Korea filled with white models? Even when the ads are made by Korean companies, for Korean markets, and never used abroad? Korean culture produces lots of images of white beauty, and sells them to Korean people.

      The double eyelid surgery is a great example. So are the nose jobs to raise the bridge of one’s nose. And the surgeries that reshape round Asian faces to make them look more elongated and narrow. These are all features that Asian people see lacking in themselves because they are comparing themselves to white beauty images. Which I think is tragic and deeply unhealthy.

      Western people never look at Koreans and think they look unattractive because they don’t have double eyelids. But Korean people do. Why? Is it because many people in Korean culture feel deeply insecure about their appearance? Is it because some Korean people think that white people are better looking?

      Korean culture is obsessed with trying to look white - and the Eurasian look is hot right now. Ask a half-Asian person who has lived in Korea. I have seen this scenario over and over: people fawn over them, and tell them that they look great - like they have had plastic surgery.

      It’s not just me saying this as some white guy that lives in Korea.

      CNN has the same view. Watch this clip.

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    2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yKqOSpDDp4&feature=related


      Anybody know how to embed youtube videos in a blog reply?

      I am writing a new post about this and including some videos. The racial issues in Asian culture's love of plastic surgery are insane.

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    3. I agree with a lot of your article, but if you think Korean women get surgery to look white, that is ignorant. I don't care if CNN said it. The media does get it wrong sometimes. The eyelid surgery is not really to look Western, but to create greater definition in the eye and for easier application of eyeliner. Some Koreans do have natural double eyelids by the way. The Western media likes to portray all Asians as "chinky eyed" like Lucy Liu and if you have much bigger eyes then her, you must have had surgery. As far as the face narrowing surgery, it is not about whiteness either, but emulating the V-line in certain Korean celebrities. Koreans like smaller faces and I do not see how that is a white trait. As far as the higher nose bridges, this surgery became popular after one actress got it done and got SO many job offers after that. Just because YOU personally have seen this trait only in white people does not mean that it is ONLY a white trait. Although some do get it ridiculously high to look natural. The reason a lot of Koreans idealize Western images is due to the influx of Hollywood and seeing America associated with wealth, beauty, etc. Do you think Koreans want to look Eastern European? White isn't always right in Korea.

      And if you believe that Korean women are submissive, you don't know them at all. There's a difference between being deferential and being submissive and Korean women aren't going to do what you want just because you say so. That's Western media playing with your mind. A lot of expats bring their Western media conditioning to how they interpret Korea, adding a lot of their own baggage to their views. You're not immune to it either although I agree with a lot of your post.

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    4. Yeah...I have A LOT to say in response to all that. I wrote a whole post about it, because I had too many ideas to write here.

      http://theunlikelyexpat.blogspot.com/2012/03/race-korean-plastic-surgery-and-white.html

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    5. Excuse me, but "white" it's not the right term it is better to use "nordic caucasian", you can find also mediterranean, Dinaric, Alpine, and East Baltic. Also Negroids have double eyelids too. I am mediterranean caucasian (corsican) mixed with other races because I am Venezuelan, and I have small nose but with a tall brigde, big almond eyes with double eyelids, oval face shape, tall forehead, wavy hair, and my skin color is light medium because I live in the tropical weather. So there is so many people with those features not only "white".

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    6. I mean round eyes, like italians, not almond.

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  13. I couldn't even read the whole article I got so fed up with the assumptions being portrayed as knowledge from such a short timer...let's see what he says after being in Asia for awhile longer

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  14. This is a good article, but the viewpoint seems to be fairly naive.

    "But to me what is most profound and disturbing about the whole Korean-girls-Western-dudes thing is the power imbalance. The white guys just have SO much power"

    I don't understand the point of the above sentence. Using such an extreme example is a blatant distortion of the fundamental "power" dynamics in place in Korea. First, the vast, vast majority of white guys (those who are not executives of multinational companies for example) are not powerful, but it is possible that they are popular. In absolute terms, they have very little power and to be forthright, they are just guys trying to live and have fun. Second, these white guys are in many ways immigrants looking for better opportunity. They do not have any political, economic or social power in the community. Third, as whites we are treated far worse in Asia by the true "power" structure-the business and political class-than Asians are treated in our countries. If a guys wants to go to Korea, teach a little English (which whether you like it or not, can be immensely helpful to Korean society), and date some willing, Korean girls, then so be it. No need to chastise.

    Personally, as a white man traveling to Asia on business a few times a year and having lived in East Asia in the past, I think the guys teaching in Japan, Korea and China are usually decent guys. They're usually neither criminals nor deviants; they're young, just-graduated guys looking to see the world. Would you prefer them to be sailors, OP?

    I don't want to rant, but I did want to provide a different perspective on the issue. There is no power imbalance. True power exists in situations in which the weaker party has no choice, but to submit. This is hardly the case in Korea, except if you're a Korean girl marrying a Korean guy. Stop being so naive, grab yourself a Cass, and chill out.

    Also, if you knew anything about Korean culture, you would know that many women are incredibly unhappy with the extreme pressure imposed by this male-dominated society. Walk around Gangnam & Yeoksan and just look at all the surgically enhanced babes - so much surgery in fact that they rank only behind the cat women and Thai ladyboys in terms of the number of operations. It actually turns me off to know that I don't know what these pretty girls look like, "what's under the hood", genetically speaking, if you will.

    Lastly, I almost doubt your background. The bitterness that I have seen in your post regarding whites and Koreans almost invariably comes from Koreans and Korean-Americans (male and oftentimes female). They really dislike white guys in Korea, but loooove to date them in the States, unless they're still brain-washed by their ultra-nationalistic, racist parents.

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    1. I'm confused - you doubt what about my background?

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    2. anonymous thinks you're a korean american male or female, he doesn't think you're white.

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  15. I have to agree with others that you went a bit overboard on the "power imbalance" thing.
    --
    I don't know if anyone else in the comments mentioned this - your problem is not just that it is american men dating korean babes, but degenerate american men (i.e. the insecure, ugly and emotionally retarded). In other words, men who can't find dates in America -- well then, coming from a culture that champions confidence strength and bravado, aren't they oppressed? It's not their fault they're ugly. Plastic surgery?

    That said, I sympathise with your repulsion. If my brain weren't falling out I'd say more on why.

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  16. For counter balance opinion, I'm an asian guy, have lived in America for 11 years.
    to tell you the truth, during my living time there, it is EXTREMELY RARE to see white female with non-white male walking together in PUBLIC. But when I see them, I notice the ENTIRE STREET staring at them and you will see some white males will start harassing them or make comment.

    At first I was shocked, since I have never experienced that in my own culture, also I had an impression (from hollywood movies) how american are liberal and open minded people, but in reality there are more racist, conservative, biggot and xenophobic people in america than in my home country.

    Because of this, minority in america automatically segregate themselves.
    almost all of my guy friends go back to their home country to find a girl to marry.

    before you judge other people, you should see in yourself.

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    1. I would conjecture that America is one of the MOST racist countries in the world. Legal doctrines and rulings such as the Civil Rights Act and Brown vs. the Board of Education were to help alleviate the condition and in my view should not be seen as signs of societal progress. The One Drop Rule, declaring a person Black if there was one drop of Black blood in his veins, is still very much alive in a social context. You just don't see too many interracial relationships and mixed children. And like the poster said, White guys are the ones to make the derogatory comments. This is in comparison to South American countries where most people are mixtures of Spanish, Black and native peoples. Outright racism is declared "racially insensitive" while more subtle types of racism, like stereotypical caricatures of minorities in the media, are ignored.

      An aspect of White Privilege, a phenomenon you alluded to, is that a White person can choose to ignore the racism that affects their minority counterparts. It is very much alive in most if not all aspects of society to the justice system, loan approvals, education, college admissions, wealth accumulation and housing. Even Asians, the per capita highest earners in America have to fight caps on admissions at the highest institutions, higher unemployment with advanced degrees, lower salaries with the same experience, and glass ceilings to management positions.

      Koreans, particularly the older ones, can be very racist, there's a lot of history as to why, but there are so little minorities that racism not nearly the problem it is in the United States. Minorities in Korea are not seen as threats and are often ignored. In America, minorities are actively subjugated. Their are successful minorities, many of them, but they are far and away, not the norm.

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    2. I think you may be underestimating how much South Korea is changing right now. There is a significant minority of biracial children being born here, and they run into a lot of racism for not being "full blooded." I have a number of posts about Korea's ongoing demographic crisis. If this country doesn't start accepting immigrants - and fast - the average age here wil be 50 in just 40 years. The whole country will shut down.

      There are also plenty of kids with parents from less wealthy Asian nations here, whose parents work in blue collar jobs in Korea. Read this article about Mongolian kids in Korea and the shit they have to deal with.

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    3. People in America judge based on racial stereotypes all the time. Look at these idiots going to Korea.

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    4. Im a pretty young white girl married to a korean man from korea and we have a 6 month old baby together and we are now living in georgia but before we were living in seoul and honestly, my husband and i have been together for 3 years (we graduated the same college) and nether in seoul or in the usa have we ever had open racism at us......sure people look but i dont think anymore then they look at other couples and every one tells us how beautiful our littke half white/half korean baby is, both koreans and americans. Actually when asian guys see my husband with me they usually smile and give him a thumbs up and in korea he was constantly asked what his secret was for getting a pretty foreign girl to.marry him. I think the most unpleasant experience i have had was actually once while we were eatig out with our baby and a korean girl and guy came into the restaurant and the korean woman saw me with my husband and gave me the most meanest, jealous, pissed off look she could muster for no reason at all other then i was white with a korean man.....i have experienced korean women being very jealous of me I think because I am actually a very pretty white girl (thin, big green eyes, long dark brown hair and alabaster smooth skin and very feminine in how i dress and zero surgery) and my husband is a very attractive korean man and i think they get jealous like how some white women get jealous of asian women with white men.....they just dont like competition especially when a white girl is prettier then they are and they know korean men are looking. But as far as racism ( i dont include female jealousy as racism) then no we havent experienced in fact most people are very nice.to us.

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  17. It is interesting that thousands of white dudes come to Korea, but the kind of people are second or third class, all losers who couldn't get jobs at home. They act like being white is some kind of superior thing and they think they deserve more than others.

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    1. They're losers at home and losers abroad. The typical dorky white guys with low self esteem. What do you think losers will get in other countries? Losers in there.

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  18. Dear author, I agree with some but not all of your points....

    I have lived abroad a few times and its true it is easier to meet girls, partly due to the novelty factor. I am white, from the West, which has been the dominant economic force in the world, which helps too as you say. However, you are a bit scathing of the 'lame guys..who can't get laid at home..' etc.

    If you are born good looking girls will run after you because of that 'power' (good looking people tend to be more succesful, earn more money etc..), but these good looking people cannot help it. Compare that with a less good looking guy (subjectively-speaking) who does not have girls running after him, but decides to be brave and move abroad 1000s of kilometres from home away from family and friends, and enjoys a few perks of the job such as getting the attention of a few local girls. Again, he cannot help it.

    The author says he finds it difficult to make friends - yes it can be difficult when you're living abroad, but you do what you can and in many cases it is as it is.

    Good luck brother...

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  19. i love being white :)

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  20. Great primary post - but there are some non-whites in Korea too!

    I believe times are changing. I have a Korean wife. I'm British, mixed race(Jamaican English), which one would think would be frowned upon by Korean purebloods. And yet her parents welcomed me in Korea with warmth and openmindedness, as did all her friends (particularly after I had proved my longetivity in the consumption of soju).

    I think as generational discrimination is becoming more diluted as the years unfurl, a man of any race has a chance of forming a genuine relationship with a nice piece of yellowtail (excuse the redneck vernacular - for those who might think that only white men are tupping Korean girls (Anonymous June 16th ?)). It is sad that the same cannot be said of the conjugate opposite, although I have seen one or two Korean men with non-Korean women... promising!

    From my experience, Korean girls are quite open to Western men. Being dark skinned has, if anything, proved to be an advantage. I think this is because with the modern young generation, 'different' is deemed interesting. Once they get over the stereotypical taboo of non-whites being inferior (some small conversation often suffices, although there seems too a fascination with the meat betwixt one's thighs), one finds that they are more than happy to open up, again, at least from my experience.

    In summary, I think Korean culture is drifting, albeit slowly, toward something more embracing and aligned with global culture, where race is not seen to be a reason to differentiate between good human beings.

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  21. Korean whore love white male why? because they think they will climb on the social ladder, too much porn have them brainwashed whites have 10 inch penises.

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    1. LoL. Not only koreans are into white men other asian girls too like filipino girls. anyways, talking about penis sizes. this remind me of a korean friend how was wondering that living in a western society and growing up in a period where sexual images are no longer seen as provocative made him very sensitive about his size. Well, he wasn't really that gifted, so he was like "what are my prospect for getting laid? How do the ladies think of this?"

      So, what do you think girls?

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  22. I am from Europe (not a native English speaker though I speak 5 languages which I use as a business consultant) and am re-visiting Korea for 2 months (pleasure and business). During my first visit to Korea (I stayed 1 year) I did learn Korean. I want to emphasise the latter because many do not, even the English teachers who I would expect to be more open to learning languages and cultures. Apparently most English teachers are not, which says a lot about what type of teachers they are. Anyway, a very interesting blog and reading the responses I think some do not realise they are actually proving the writer's point. That aside in my opinion I find it pretty sad to be staying longer than 5 years as an English teacher in Korea (unless you are a professor at a university). In many ways it is like whoring yourself out. Nobody can convince me this can be a fulfilling aspiration. The sad truth is that many can only go back to a life of unemployment or if they are lucky mediocrity. Hence, these kind of people will never "step it up". I know you also have the expat businessmen, but most of them only stay for a few years and these days - you always have exceptions - they have a bit more respect. Anyway, when you are young and not married there is nothing against having "fun" if "fun" is plenty available. I have had "fun" all over the world. Yet always "fun" with respect for the locals and their culture, remember you are a guest. Yet, it strikes me how many "white" losers there are in Korea. Pretty sad guys who live in a bubble of denial.

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    1. the ego is such s fun thing to watch in operation. Every man wants to be a king of their small castle.

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  23. I can't really understand why there are so many negative comments about the above article. You can't say that this DOESN'T exist. I'm not saying that EVERY white man is lusting after an Asian woman (I'm certainly not one of them. I'm a white man that is happily married to a beautiful white women). However, there is a certain "white man" type that usually pursues Asian women. And typically, those are the ones that have really negative things to say about OUR women. White men are just as chauvinistic as any other. Come on, let's admit it. There are a lot of white guys that just don't want to say it. There are plenty that stereotype minority women and date based on those stereotypes. Let's be honest here.

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    1. Yeah, some dudes are just pissed that I called them out for creepily fetishizing East Asian women. Which is pretty a pretty well documented phenomenon in the West. We're not all stereotypes, but there are plenty of fetishist weirdos in Korea. Honestly, until just a few years ago - how many other reasons were there for Western guys to come to Korea?

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    2. I think it's also a sour grapes thing too. "I can't get the kind of woman I want in the States, so I'll go to Central America, Southeast Asia (Vietnam, Thailand, Singapore, etc.), Russia, etc. and get one/buy one (whichever). It's never England, France, Spain, ect. is it? There's a reason for that. What do men want? They all want the pretty, slim, feminine, etc. woman, regardless of what they're like. Most men are insecure and ARE threatened by beautiful, smart and powerful women (like my wife :-P). That's why I married my wife and think I'm a pretty darn lucky guy too :-) That's why they go to these countries with these kinds of reputations. Pretty chauvinistic in my book. Gives us white guys a pretty bad image which is unfortunate.

      Anyway, never posted anything before but this one seemed worth it. Hate all of this negative stuff against us white guys, especially ones that aren't like this (and there are a lot of us out there, it's just the few that always ruins it for everybody). This will be my last comment. Good luck with the site!

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    3. Its so true....the one thing I notice about white men who chase after asian women is that they all LOVE to put down white women as "inferior" in every way......they always generalize white women as fat, femenists, outspoken, too manly and basically always try tobmake white women feel like their beauty and own distinctive racial traits are something undesireable and they are sub par to asian women....they have a scary hatred of white women. ..i mean is it some kind of prerequisite to date asian women that they must first put down a whole race of women for simply beig white? White women are gorgeous and come in all sizes and shape and yes there just as many slim, cute, young white women as asian women and its a total stereotype that all asian women are beautiful....cause i lived in korea a while too as a white woman and honestly ibwasnt envious at all of korean women....i wore the skirts and heels too and am just as slim and honestly korean men drooled over me and some korean girls got pissed....korean women are pretty but alot is plastic surgeried and they end up looking like clones and i wasnt jealous of not looking like every other single girl walking down hongdae with their fake faces.....i actually loved being white and different lookig while in korea and got a lot of attention. And yes, i disliked almost all the white men i met there because you are right in the west most of the white guys in korea are not even considered cute and many are just dorks and weird and do have weird fetishes and whenever i saw korean women with them i just thought if she only knew how unattractive by western standards that guy is....nothing to be proud of.

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    4. Hell yeah, I agree! I think white women are some of the most beautiful women in the world. These losers are just pissed that they can't get these beauties. How retarded is it to put down your own women?! You only end up looking like an idiot. Hey, just leaves more for the rest of us non-losers! The Korean women that date those guys are nothing to look at either.

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    5. @Durham Stevens - I'm currently dating a Korean immigrant I met at school. I find her profoundly attractive and have taken a sincere interest in her language and culture. But I guess to you I'm just another "fetishist weirdo" huh.

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    6. Definitely agree. Most, not all, but most white guys who chase after Asian women usually tend to be the sexist bitter type who generally complain about all women - in particular white women, which makes it look like they are chasing Asian women bevause their pursuits of relationships with white women have failed and now they feel really insecure. I have friends from different backgrounds and I have travelled around. I am personally not attracted to Asian women. They're not my type. I grew up around a lot of Asians, including Koreans, and to me they are far from being "the most beautiful" people. I don't think they're unattractive, but I have other preferences. Also most Asian women have developed a similar attitude as western women these days so they're not that submissive. I think a lot of people stereotype that an Asian woman is going to be skinny, cute, submissive, etc. But its just a stereotype and not a real fact. Some people look at phictures of Asians online, whether they're celebrities or models, and they think "wow those Asians are attractive" - but in reality the general Asian population is not even half as attractive as those Asian models or celebrities you might see online. I think the Asian fetish definitely exists but not everywhere. Where im from 95% of guys are not interested in Asian women. However I have seen some white women these days are who are also chasing after Asian, Arab or black men - ive seen it a lot, especially among the younger ones I know, but people just don't report on that. Anyway its fine for peopke from different cultures to date if they find things in a common, treat each other equally and understand each other. However if you are relying on stereotypes or looking for a place just to get laid, then you're going down the wrong path. I know this white guy who was married to a beautiful white woman, but they divorced. Afterward he started complaining and saying rude things about white women, so he started dating an Asian woman from Thailand (she was not even half as pretty as his ex-wife to be honest) and he said that she listened to him more (guess he liked submissive). She moved from Thailand to live with him... A while later their relationship end terribly! She flew back home and he was pissed coz he paid so much stuff for her. Now he's trying to get his ex-wife back but I don't think she's interested. I think the guy vrought it on himself coz he was expecting a stereotype to be true and thats wrong. You shouldn't stereotype.

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    7. where are you from?? 95% of guys don't like asian girls? that's unheard of in america.

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  24. Although I do see examples of your very negative outlook on Western guy/Korean girl relationships I also see and know many counter examples. Personally speaking and otherwise. As an earlier poster related it comes down to the individual person not the race, language spoken whatever.

    On top of thatt I know of many many Korean men who treat their wives/girlfriends like complete shit and I know just as many who do not. So be careful with your generalizations.

    Frankly you sound somewhat insecure yourself and a little "threatened" by these other western guys dating Korean women. It in no way excuses the cases of douchebag behavior here just as in any other country but remember you are the only constant in your life. So focus on how you want to live your life here or wherever and be that good decent man you are not seeing here often apparently. By doing that you take power away from those said "douchebags".

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  25. Seems like a lot of sensitive white men are here to eagerly proclaim that their penises are the cure to oppressive Korean male patriarchy. Really, it's such hard (though ennobling) work taking advantage of white privilege and getting laid way more than they would back home!

    Congrats to you, author, for being able to show incredible self-awareness.

    Korea may have a First World economy, but it still hasn't outgrown its Third World mentality. Remember that's it was only during the 1980s when South Korea really pulled away from even North Korea as an increasingly-wealthy country. Despite all the rabid nationalism, there's still a huge amount of racial self-doubt and insecurity, and these feelings manifest themselves in many ways, one of the most visible being the high IR dating/marriage rate of Korean women to white men.

    I'm not saying that Korean society is perfect, because it's not, and it definitely needs to change. But if there wasn't any white privilege involved, then patriarchy-fleeing Korean women would be seeking all sorts of Americanized men, including Asians, blacks, Latinos, etc.

    But nope, IR relationships are almost exclusively with white men, and often, sexist and racist white men. Why? Because these men are so tall, handsome, and charming? Yeah right. It's because of race, first and foremost.

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    1. Agree. Most of the white guys who go after Asian women are not charming, sweet and handsome. They generally tend to be the ones that get rejected by white women so they feel insecure and bitter about women (although they usually don't realise this), and then they think they can go after some submissive Asian chick who will listen to them and sleep with. Sure they might find someone like that, but after a while the relationship will rot and ive seen guys like that end up in some serious state of regret. Its not my business though, I treat everyone with respect and I love my white women.

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  26. Wow buddy, I'm amazed by your analysis (not to mention it's well written).

    I could not have said better than you did. I've been here for 2 months, and I totally feel what you've described (never met so many insecure douches in such a short time span) it's great to know there are some "normal" lads out there!

    Keep it up and take care

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  27. We must also keep in mind that these Korean women do have a choice. If their relationship with a white western man is not good then she can always choose another man. Some of these guys do have an advantage in Korea to receive attention from lots of Korean women that they could not get from western women. I have seen so many western women who enjoy this same advantage in the country where they live. They frequently have men hitting on them and they take advantage of it as much as they can. Many have very high standards of the man they want. If they can't find just the right man then they do not want one at all. I kind of get the feeling that you sometimes believe that these Korean women are victims because some of these white men are taking advantage of them. If that is the case then you must also consider that these same white men were victims in their own western country from the women that would take advantage of them. In simple truth they are receiving attention there that they are not getting in their own country and they like it. But I am sorry to say that there are scumbags everywhere.
    When I lived in Korea I went there with 5 other men and I was the only one that came back single. Often times I would ask Korean women why they wanted to date white men and they would give me 2 primary reasons. Western men treat a women much better than a Korean man,and I wanna go stateside.
    So maybe some Korean women are using white men. Perhaps we are all victims or just trying to make our lives as good as we can.

    Regards

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    1. That probably has truth to an extent. Ive have male Asian friends who only want to date a white woman. I have also seen a lot of guys from Middle Eastern & Mediterranean countries that chase after white women. It hapoens both ways depending on the countries. Although where im from Asian men and women often prefer to date someone from their own background, same with the white men and women.

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  28. All comments are intended for good conversation only. I had no intention to offend, just observe.


    First your following statement shows age bias as though a younger man would not want a traditional type marriage and family. I have met both men and women both eastern and western that wanted this type of lifestyle. What makes it sexist to want it and why do you look down on it so? Remember freedom means choosing the lifestyle you wish. Why is your choice better? Just because YOU believe it is?

    A Korean Canadian friend once told me that he wanted to marry soon, and “wanted to find a wife who will be submissive and do a good job raising the kids.” The flat unabashed sexism of this statement really shocked me, not least because the friend in question is my age - under 30


    We have all heard of the Prime Directive and we believe it is a great thing right up until the time when we find something we know is wrong and then we feel justified in violating that Directive. This seems like just such the western thing to do. Let them know how they are wrong and you are going to show them the way. Your following statement is a touchy issue and I recommend that you go to the following site for better in-site.

    The Equal Justice Foundation WWW.ejfi.org

    At the very least please review the objective, fundamental liberties, basic findings and research areas.

    I'm not trying to offend you but you imply sexism in your posts by showing only women as victims on this topic. I have seen on more that one occasion where Korean woman can become very violent. If you have not seen it then just try calling a Korean woman a bitch in a public place and watch her take violent means to defend her honor.

    This brings up another huge issue: there is a fair amount of unreported and unacknowledged domestic abuse in Korea. Such situations are almost always swept under the rug. The general belief seems to be that domestic abuse is a private matter - and should not be interfered with by anyone outside the family. No one else should get involved or talk about it, because that is simply not proper or acceptable. 

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    1. Yeah, Asian women are very sweet and submissive until they cut your penis off. There are a lot of cases of Asian, including Korean women becoming violent towards their husband - especially if he cheats or if they get sick of his bad treatment towards them. Ive seen so many stories of Asian women actually cutting their partner's penis off, or at least trying to. And since I grew up in an Asian environment I can actually tell you that the Asian women can become more violent and crazier to deal with than western women. Not all of course, but it exists.

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    2. Wow, i never knew that. i've learned a lot just by happening upon this site. i'm half korean and i never seen a violent korean woman or korean women act out here in america. i live in new jersey with my boyfriend, we have a few korean neighbors, and i would go to a korean market out here. everyone's friendly here. and i've seen a few korean female with with their white husbands and kids. do you think one of the factors is that in korea there's no women's rights? the laws don't offer enough protection for the women? one korean lady told that the korean culture is male dominated, it's a macho culture. do you think this factor may an effect the women in korean society? just curious..

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  29. In your following 3 statements you appear to define men as users and losers and women as victims. These statments appear to be both sexist and racist.
    Your Canadian male friend has trouble with dating in Canada and it is his fault. Your American female friends can't get dates in Korea and they are depressed victims that cannot compete with what sounds like superior Koreans. Lots of western men experience in the west what these females are now experiencing in the east. Why is it that these female American victims cannot compete with Koreans, what is wrong with them and how is that the fault of western or even eastern men? You also say that expat men are there for all the wrong reasons. I submit to you that no matter where they were they would be there for the same reasons, they are just having more success at it in Korea.


    So many Western guys come here and really wanna date Korean women that the expat ladies have a really hard time dating. Some of them get really depressed about it, and compare themselves to super-thin impeccably-dressed Korean chicks that they couldn’t possibly look like. I have a few close female American friends that are having a terrible time meeting guys, because so many of them are off trying to date a million Korean girls.

     I know a Canadian guy whose relationships back home in Toronto were all disasters, and who was too insecure to get laid. But in Korea he is dating an attractive marketing professional, and has hooked up with tons of willing Korean chicks, and now he never wants to go home – where he would just be another average guy.

    But it really turns my stomach to see these insecure, lame, emotionally messed up dudes, capitalizing on, exploiting their status as white Western men.  Plus lots of them are just assholes to their girlfriends and wives, who are generally better-looking and often smarter than them. After all, their relationships take place almost exclusively within the bounds of the English language. To be completely honest, ever since I came to Korea I have had a hard time making male friends. Lots of the guys here just rub me the wrong way, or seem dull, or arrogant, or insecure and jealous. They seem to be here for all the wrong reasons.

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    1. Dont generalize all american expat women like that because I knew many expat women in korea who had a blast dating and no trouble whatsoever.....but then again you sound like the typical white guy putting down white women because they dont look asian so thus are somehow uglier....I was an american expat woman in korea and not only had zero trouble getting any man i was interested in, I often got too much attention from expat men and korean men. Im a pretty attractive white girl and easily competed with any korean woman there....Im 5"4, 110 lbs and super girly and love skirts and heels just as much as korean women and the amount of attention i got from korean men was almost embarrassing....i also went to korea with an open mind about dating korean men and actually fkund all the expat men that hit on me gross compared to korean men, who dressed nice, had better hair, beautiful brown skin, and buff bodies where as the white guys were pasty pale, fat, badly dressed and had an arrogance that was nauseating. But then according to white men like you all of us expat women must be 200 lb amazons who dont know how to look like a woman, cuss all men out, spit and have no class, have no traditions and sulk in a dark corner waiting for white men to acknowledge us because god forbid a white woman find asian men attractive right? How could we possibly find korean men more attractive then you white gods? Made myself lol. I actually ended up marrying a korean man from korea and he is 1000000000000000% better and hotter then any white guy ive ever known.......but its ok go back to thinking the same stereotypical trash about white women in korea.

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    2. I lived and worked in Korea for many years. I am not a super model and yet I too had a rich social life. I never met my soul mate, but I did date and had a long term relationship. The idea that white woman can't get a date in Korea is one the biggest urban myths out there.

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  30. THIS WHITE TRASH LOSER IS IN KOREA ONLY TO LEECH MONEY FROM KOREANS WHILE HE GOES AROUND TAKING RANDOM PICTURES, MOCKING KOREANS AND LAUGHING AT KOREANS AND KOREAN CULTURE.... TYPICAL OF A STUPID LOSER WHO COULDN'T GET A JOB AT HOME AND A WHITE WOMAN. FETISHISM MUCH?

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    1. You got that right. He fits the stereotype. Didn't he describe himself as being gangly, spindly and no physical threat to anybody? Geeky and dorky with an fugly Asian girlfriend, no doubt. This guy would be unhappy anywhere in the world. Look how he bashes the US too. He's got a real problem just being a part of society.

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  31. Your reasoning is quite off from the start by illustrating Korean Females as a submissive, no freedom loving identity in Korean society. When it comes to deception, I am keen to the hidden concept of what the writer is really trying to sell and I'm convinced this is an attempt to change the patriarchy dominance in Korea so Korean Females are more willing to date foreigners.
    The huge exaggeration of white privilege in Korea and Koreans want to be "white" is a rumor. To believe in such rumors is not understanding the Korean mentality. "dominant" energy and white privilege is congruent but so is black/hispanic/and Asian. These are the types of energies Koreans avoid. If you think white privilege works in Korea you are mistaken.

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    1. It's a rumor. Others would back it up. I do! He's not the only that's been there. The author sounds like a "lifer". Basically, going there because he's a loser here. End of story really. I chose not to associate with "lifers" like him. They're really quite odd and sad. And trust me, Korean woman notice they're losers too. And interestingly enough, they're creating a negative stereotype about white men over there in the process. White guys don't have the pick of women just because they're white. So guys like him go there with their stereotypes, misconceptions, chauvinistic attitudes, etc. and are unhappy there for the same reasons they are unhappy in the States. It doesn't change who they are. They could sleep with ugly Americans but choose to sleep with ugly Koreans instead. That's the very definition of "fetish". Case in point, there was an exchange student in my high school from France. She was an AVERAGE looking girl and I mean AVERAGE. There were plenty of other girls who were more than her equal. But because she was French, she was somehow hot. Some of the guys that would never give an American girl that kind of credit were giving it to her. LAME. Guys like this can't be objective. Just because the author "writes" well doesn't give credence to who he is, and what he's really trying to say. I'm telling you, he treats the readers like a herd of idiots. We're not stupid.

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  32. My two cents...

    As a western foreigner...

    The double eyelid thing is not a "white thing", every other ethnicity but the east-asian one has those big eyed with double eyelids (and there are even east-asians who have big eyes and double eyelids naturally, though not the majority). If they were all wearing blue contacts I would understand but that's not the case. Koreans are trying to conform (only beauty wise) just like blacks and arabs relax their hair mainly to conform beauty wise (the white ethnicity isn't the only one with straight hair, most ethnic groups in the world have straight hair). Conformity is human as we are a social species (many studies prove it). If everyone is dressed black in a company and one person come dressed in red, 9 times out of 10 the next day that person will come to work dressed in black.

    As for the whiteness of skin, it has its roots from centuries ago in east asia, when tanned asians were considered poor because they were from the countryside and worked under the sun, while lightskinned people were considered rich. In China and Japan too this is the same thing, that has been existing LONG before the media, some asians look even whiter than whites naturally.

    A lot of whites have no special "priviledges", they face prejudice but not in a good way. Sure they are seen as curiosities, but not as prizes. They're mainly perceived as too promiscuous (due to American movies). It doesn't excuse prejudice, but the "white power in Korea" thing is way exxagerated. Very very very few whites can build a career in Korea, and the moment they show too much condescendence they're out. Why is it that most korean families, and east asian families for that matter period, dont approve of interracial relationships with whites? Because white is not seen as that powerful.

    What I quickly realized was that Koreans were far from pro-Americans or pro-White Americans at all. Some are (often time they're still very young), but that's not the vast majority. As for the pride of everything that is Korean, well westerners from America (and even European countries, from what I've observed in Korea) are quick to flaunt everything from their respective countries and express their pride in their culture that they consider better and more advanced than the korean one (pride even goes so far as recording songs like "Born in the USA", or "New York New York", nothing new under the sun), yet when asians show pride, their pride is perceived as "irrational". Knowing where that country came from it's even more understandable in my eyes. But proud asians tends to be portrayed as "dangerous" in western media.

    Korean women today are far from being the korean women their mothers used to be. Their mothers have faced the same problems american women have faced before with sexism and oppression, i.e. nothing different from or "worse than" the west, culturally speaking. Only difference is that their emancipation is recent because the country only rose economically a few 30 years ago.

    I think too many westerners have a simplistic "westernized" perception of Korea that can be summed up as "they want to look like and be us". Everything points out the opposite. This is a country that takes what it likes and koreanizes it for its people. Just like any country, including western ones, have done for centuries. The UK didn't invent "their" tea, as far as I know.

    White privilege?
    Temporarily, probably for a minority of them. Long term? I don't think so.

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  33. Koreans like the United States. The United States helped them alot in korea when the north was taking over the south. They treat the dead soldiers with very much respect. They make sure there graves are very nice and clean.

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  34. Korean women are beautiful....
    Thanks for the post very informative thinking of going to Korea for 3 weeks.

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  35. Thanks for your posts. I read this one and "Sexism and Patriarchy in Korea". I have no time for refined analysis about your writings so forgive me, if I jump into conclusions.

    I was contempleting one of your main argument in this post that white foreigners take advantage of korean women. Here are a few thoughts:

    South Korea has a very high HDI (human development index, which measures general well-being). It's the 15th highest leaving behind countries like Italy, Spain and UK. How could it be that a white man could act like a boss and take advantage of women in a country, whose living standard in average is higher?

    According to your Sexism and Patriarchy -post Korean men subordinate Korean women. It's believable that some white foreigners take in this attitude but probably white men in Korea in average still treat their Korean girlfriends better than Korean men. So is there really a problem? The more white foreigners in Korea the better Korean women are treated. In my opinion it's exactly as many commentators pointed out that there are always naive women who cannot distinct good men from losers and that's worldwide phenomen. If that happens because Korean women prefer white skin, what could be said? Korean women are not forced to be their girlfriends, they choose to be.

    Greetings from Switzerland.

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  36. i would like to say that being a white male, (why that makes a difference is beyond me) who is married to a korean lady for over 40 yrs.can add something here. when i was in korea for 5yrs, women could not own property, or inherit. koreans generally referred to me as a (hairy, big nosed barbarian) and i had to put up with my wifes father saying the only way i would marry her was over his dead body. at which point i informed him that if he would kindly take his ass outside i could fix that. the korean people were very predjudiced, and a man beating his wife for some imagined slight was not uncommon, or against the law. my wife and i came back to the u.s. and yes we ran into the same type of bigoted morons here too. when we first came home she used to hide behind me and not speak. it took a few years to get her to understand that her thoughts and desires were attainable and i take great pleasure in seeing her accomplish what she considers important to her. i found out she is actually pretty funny and thankfully has the same warped sense of humor that i do. when it's all said and done it's nothing but tribalism that everybody tries to convince themselves that they have gotten beyond. the white rac and the oriental race both came from the caucasis mountains in russia, and we all came from africa originally, so why does it make a difference. you love who you love and if you can find that, consider yourself fortunate indee.

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  37. When I first got to Korea I thought the women were beautiful but after awhile, after getting use to them, after dating some I really dont see what the big hooha is. Korean women are pretty but one thing I realized real quick is that Korean women are not NATURALLY pretty as many other women are in the world.....I personally think there are more naturally beautiful women in other countries, like thai women are naturally gorgeous, russian and eastern european women are naturally gorgeous, young college girls in the usa are naturally beautiful, columbian women are naturally beautiful but korean women, the pretty ones, are all plastic surgery ads.......the korean celebs have had multiple surgeries, go to gangnam and every korean women there seems to have had at least her nose and eyes done......natural korean women really are just average looking and i think koreans only get their famed beauty thru plastic surgery because natural koreans look nothing like the koreans with plastic surgery.....and Im sorry but as a man thats a real turn off, a woman whom you dont actually know she really looks like (yes the differences are extreme from before and after often time). One thing i appreciate about women in other countries is that per average person most women in other places have not had surgery and are still beautiful but almost every 20-30 yr old korean woman has had some surgery to be pretty. So what ends up happning is so many young korean women look like copy cat clones, no diversity or interesting quirks in their appearances...they have the same surgeries, wear the same clothes, have the same hair styles, the same opinions.....there is no differences from one korean girl to the next which made dating them very boring......plus they were some of the.most insecure, vainest, shallowest women ive ever met.....so looks obsessed. Now im dating a gorgeous Irish girl with emerald eyes and long red hair and freckles and she is thlusands of light years prettier and more interesting then the.copy cat cloned boring korean women.....men go to europe because there are some truely NATURALLY beautiful women there (fyi european men dont find koreans that pretty in comparison to their own...korean women in europe have a.much harder time competing, it seems that only american men are obsessed with hem...)

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    1. I agree logan, it's interesting to read your post. i once had a few english men who said that northeast asian women in general are not that attractive. one greek guy said once, and this is harsh, that asian women are the bottom of the barrel in the dating scene in europe along with black women. even in europe dating black women is considered the bottom of the barrel.

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  38. "Koreans like the United States. The United States helped them alot in korea when the north was taking over the south. They treat the dead soldiers with very much respect. They make sure there graves are very nice and clean."

    This is what I mean by a western view. The USA is one of the reasons Korea is divided, along with Russia. Not to victimize koreans but the US played a role in that division. Know the history sir/madame. That's pretty much like thinking the US "saved Iraq"...Anyway, as I said before -MOST- koreans aren't pro-americans, otherwise their STANDARDS would be american. They preserve their culture, and take what they like and koreanize it. This is what countries do in general. Again, you think that tea comes from the UK? think again. The UK britishized it and made it their own. Does that make them pro-China? Does that mean they love the chinese? *SIGH* moving on...

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  39. I find this extremely interesting, and unfortunately enough I actually hope this is true. Since I was a kid I've had an extreme preference toward Eastern Asian women, and 2013-2014 I will be studying for one year in Seoul as an exchange student. I'm only 18, during my time there I'll turn 19 - and like I said, I actually hope I'll have my pick of Korean women. My goals are not to simply go there and find a beautiful girl, rather to learn the language and culture as well. But that doesn't mean I don't plan on going clubbing and having some fun. You mentioned these whites with yellow fever DO tend to be weirdos/outcasts in their native lands, which I noticed myself. This also makes me wonder; when a 183cm (6'0") athletic green-eyed good looking Croat walks into South Korea, what would the reactions from the women be? Would this cause me trouble in terms of making friendships with the males? I'm assuming most of the white guys there are either above age 30, or simply physically unappealing. Also, how many white foreigners are there in Korea? Is it pretty common everywhere to see younger whites?

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    1. Does common sense exist anymore? If you are good looking, people are going to see that you are good looking no matter where you are. If you are unattractive, people are going to see that you are unattractive no matter where you are. That fact that you "hope this is true" is because you are mainly going there for that reason. Be honest here. A lot of guys travel mainly for that reason. They just do not want to admit it. I hear it all the time, especially from military guys.

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    2. I hate guys like this. I get hit on by foreign men (grad students, diplomats, etc. etc. etc.) all the time because I'm an attractive American girl. Because they want to date/sleep with, live out their American girl fetish or whatever. What is the deal with guys like this? I find it irritating and annoying.

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  40. this is ok... if it is your openion. but who the hell are you to say things which are naturally biased... it is you who write with his extreem prejudice or lack of understanding and it is always easy for you!!! by the way racist terminology and "complexes" wether superior or inferior is the outcome of social treatment, why is that this all nonsense exists highly in dominant nations or should i say emperial breed.. my friend sorry for the behaviour but thats the only way to make you understand how it plays a role in molding a society to seeks a refuge in sacred socio cultural baggage which every one wants to dump but carry..when we stop calling our selves WHITES-BLACKS-PALE-BROWN-GREEN-SILVER OR WHATEVER we must preach... i have to much venom for this topic but i already sounds like you... no difference at all HUMAN psychy, hope u understand we are unfair.

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  41. Hey Expat,

    I enjoyed reading your article. Credit to you -you're a good writer. I don't agree at all with your opinions though.

    Your article plays on a pretty sexist (to be frank) narrative that portrays Korean women as senseless victims, as if they aren't able to choose a good quality man. I know you didn't intend that, but you're treading the same track that the infamous MBC 'news report' did.

    You also apparently consider it peverse for man to find a 'cute, thin, submissive girl' attractive?

    Should I instead focus on meeting ugly, overweight and dominant girls? That would be acceptably PC by your standards? Right?

    Don't know what bubble you've been living in here, but being a foreigner (yes, even a white male one) is a double edged sword.

    Writing a blog post that plays on worn-out stereotypes is easy, but it's not an intellectual pursuit. It's also pretty offensive. I noted how much you dislike being labelled as one of 'those' that you yourself have labelled.

    I also note that you wrote an article on 'naive white liberal expats' or something of that nature.

    You've pretty much nailed that niche.

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  42. Agreed. There are a lot of us that can see through his bull. His postings are generally sexist and offensive. Like he's a better man and more evolved than the rest of the planet. Yeah, right.

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  43. i'm korean male
    I perfectly agree with your opinion

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  44. You can glean a lot from reading someone's writings. Generally speaking, the author of this site seems to be a pretty unhappy person. If you're a bitter and unhappy person, that's how you're going to view everything. He has little respect for were he's from and his own culture. How much respect is he going to have for another? Even less. I'm glad that he's not here in America. He would have had a blog site called "The Unlikely American". Every foreigner reading the site would have gotten a warped view of what we're like and about our society. Yeah, there are negative things about every society. There are things about American society that aren't great but to trash and make fun of everything American isn't rational. I'm proud to be an American but never have gone anywhere comparing my culture or ideologies to someone else's. There are things about my culture that someone else won't understand and for that individual to make scathing judgements and comments based on how they think things should be done is just plain ridiculous. I agree with the post above. The author wouldn't be happy living anywhere. It seems like everybody else has a problem and he's the only one that 's enlightened. He left America, he should leave Korea too. Nobody's forcing him to live over there. There are foreigners here that complain about America all the time. Hey, nobody's forcing you to stay here either. Leave the planet and do us all a favor.

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  45. Ditto. Asians have every right to be proud of who they are and about their culture. The American woman that go to Korea (I'm one too) don't have the same stigma. They're definitely perceived as being more normal and are seriously there to teach or take in the culture. The guys...not so much. It's kinda' embarrassing. I had a Korean associate ask me if all white guys were this unappealing in the States. I told her absolutely not! Only the ones that come here! LOL!

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  46. I couldn't read the whole article, too much BS... there are tolerant cool people and assholes in every country. Xenophobic Korea is a (slowly) dying beast. I lived in Seoul 4 years and married a Korean, it wasn't my intent. More Korean women are with white men mainly because they get treated with more respect, the sex rocks, and if you're not an English teacher or soldier in Korea - it likely means you're a very successful businessman. Money talks in every culture. I do know of a few Korean men who are with white women, and the women said the same thing about the respect and sex versus white dudes. Who da thunk it? Different strokes for different folks... If you really want stares, be a Korean woman with a black man - now that is real social taboo. I have seen my share of families making sure that they destroy any chance of that happening to their daughter. The social stigma to the family and the father's professional reputation is too great. One black dude I knew was a successful trader from an Ivy-calibre college - they met in grad school. Wasn't happening - the family did everything they could to screw with the daughter to make her life miserable and she eventually just gave up the fight. Talk about a sad situation with now winners...

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  47. And just because you are not into the whole "interracial dating thing" (and a lot of people are not, even here in America), DOES NOT mean you are intolerant. I find guys my own race really attractive and do not find others particularly so. Nothing wrong with that. It is just funny how people always associate "tolerance" with having to date someone outside of your own culture. Just sayin'...

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  48. ...More Korean women are with white men mainly because they get treated with more respect, the sex rocks, and if you're not an English teacher or soldier in Korea - it likely means you're a very successful businessman. Money talks in every culture. I do know of a few Korean men who are with white women, and the women said the same thing about the respect and sex versus white dudes. Who da thunk it?...Well, which is it? So Korean women are with white guys and white women are with Korean guys for the same reasons? This goes to show how ridiculous the claims really are. I've heard so many similar comments made by people who are involved in interracial relationships...Black guys that only date white women because black women are this and that, white guys that only date minority women because white women are this and that, white women that only date non-white guys because white guys are this and that, Asian women who only date non-Asian men because Asian men are this and that and the list goes on and on...This kind of thinking is really stereotyping too, isn't it? I agree with the above post. Just because you're not into dating outside your culture, doesn't mean you're intolerant. I find that people who are in interracial relationships can be just as guilty of stereotyping and in a lot of cases, make themselves out to be so much more "tolerant" and "forward" thinking that those who aren't. You can still respect another culture without "having" to marry or date anybody in that culture. People make it seem like that has to be a prerequisite.

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  49. Finally!!!! Some common sense. There doesn't seem to be much common sense or objectivity on this site. This site makes it seem like white guys are only running around chasing after Asian women (or anything other than own race). ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE. I'm a white male and definitely don't agree with many things here. I find that a lot of people who date interracially are pretty narrow-minded and prejudiced themselves. Most of them make sweeping blanket statements about the reasons why they don't date their own race. Which I also find pretty offensive. If you want to date outside your culture, that's your choice but I don't find many that do it well.

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  50. I think it's time that this expat returns home. It doesn't sound like you know the Korean language even though you've been there for awhile. Do yourself a favor and go home. Some of the comments are downright racist and ignorant. Stop objectifying Korean women. They do have mind of their own, they are not puppets. Also, Korean men are highly sought after by white women in America because they are successful doctors, lawyers, or IT gurus, ect. However, anyone man who abuse women are despicable creatures.

    As for the rumors about Korean women having the most plastic surgery, it is not only misrepresented, but is also getting old. More than half the customers for plastic surgeries in Korea are from other countries outside of Korea. Koreans aren't secretive above plastic surgery unlike in other countries. However, there is nothing wrong with plastic surgery if it makes you happy. Most in Hollywood have gone through plastic surgery...just Google it.

    It sickens me to read so many comments disparaging Korean women directly or indirectly. I love Korean women.

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    1. Whatever. Koreans get more plastic surgery than anyone in the world, as reported in publications like The Economist and The Daily Mail.

      This is not some conspiracy that "foreigners" made up just embarrass Koreans or make Korea "lose face." Korean culture is obsessed with trying to look like celebrities, and it's really unhealthy and creepy. Can anyone name any other place on earth where entire subway stations are chock full of ads for dramatic cosmetic surgery, replete with shocking photos?

      Regarding Korean women, yes, of course they have minds of their own. They also live in an extremely sexist, patriarchal culture that denies them meaningful participation in the job market, family life, government, and in the real circles of power. Who objectifies Korean women more - the small Western expat community or the legions or Korean salarymen that visit whorehouses with their office mates?

      Also, what exactly does this phrase mean: "anyone man who abuse women are despicable creatures"?

      Delete
    2. Expat,

      Man, you really are an unhappy chap. You try to present yourself as this "liberal" man fighting for women's rights but many of us readers here see right through you. Let's see, Korea now has a female president (something your country has not been able to produce. A bit sour are we?) Seriously, you really need to go home. It is very apparent that you really are a lifer (and trust me, I met many while over there myself). You are in Korea totally unhappy (and no, we are not buying that you are there "to take in the culture and teach"). You are unhappy because you are a nobody in America and now you are a "minority" nobody in Korea. You could not compete with the successful men of your own kind and now you can not compete with the successful men in Korea. It is quite simple really. Your whole website points to your unhapy lot in life. Quite pathetic.

      Delete
  51. I'm Korean female born and grew up in Korea and currently live in the States.
    I'm just compelled to correct a perception just about all of you have that's incorrect.
    Korean plastic surgery say the double eye lid job or any others for that matter are NOT out of envy for the Western beauty.
    It's simply the perception Koreans have which is an idea influenced by none other than some Korean women who were born naturally with double eye crease. There are Korean women who are with double eye lid and they are usually very attractive. - Perhaps the rarity of them made the look more appealing to Koreans. The design of the plastic surgery for the double crease, if you know it well, actually is intentionally made not to look like that of Westerners.
    What's amazing to me is how readily the double eye lid work is perceived by westerners as a Korean pursuit for things western.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It seems to be the Western ego I'm afraid... We tend to think the world revolves around us. Thank you very for pointing that out. I find that very interesting. ^^

      Delete
  52. It never ceases to amaze me regarding the denial from everybody on here who asserts that the double eye lid surgery for Asians is anything but to look more westernized, or to reflect more European features. However, you want to frame it (e.g., it’s not white envy, etc., etc.) – the bottom line is that you are insecure and brainwashed by societal forces into thinking that your natural ethnic features are inferior to the more perceived euro features. You’re not getting surgery for combatting old age are you? And you’re not trying to shed any love handles either are you?

    "There are Korean women who are with double eye lid and they are usually very attractive. - Perhaps the rarity of them made the look more appealing to Koreans"

    "Perhaps the rarity"??? Riiiight - And why is it that you think the Korean women with double eye lid are perceived as being more attractive... where do you think that perceived standard of attractiveness is coming from??

    This often reminds me of a Tyra Banks show where an Asian American woman in her late 20s or early 30s was purporting to undergo the eyelid surgery because of signs of aging, and Tyra was calling her out on it, but she refused to admit it... even the plastic surgeon admitted the European influence.

    Bottom line – there is nothing wrong with deciding to undergo plastic surgery... hell – if it helps psychologically, with one’s self esteem, then by all means, this is a free country... but it’s so annoying when people refuse to own up to it. Why is it that people are so adamant on not admitting to being influenced by societal/cultural forces that indoctrinate what is perceived to be attractive??

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  53. Hey Man, just read your article and you sound to me like someone who has studied - or at least had experience in - some form of Social Anthropology.

    If that is true, then you'll understand what I mean when I say that you are no longer a passive observer. Your teleological analysis of the phenomina of - as you called it - 'the power of whiteness' has no academic value because you have lost your objectivity. You have become emotionally involved in the topic and therefore are in no position to make supposed objective statements about anything regarding Korean culture.

    There is far too much room for error in subjective judgement and biased analysis, and there can be no concrete truth gained through any form of debate from such an analysis, only YOUR truth.

    Learn the rules and techniques of writing an academic ethnography, take a hard objective stance in your passive observations, and then I would happy to debate some of these cultural differences with you.

    You mentioned how many cultures around the world strive for lighter complexions for the purpose of 'looking European'. Not only is that a classic case of Ockham's Razor, but it's just plain and simply put, ignorant.

    The reason why many Asian cultures value pale skin has nothing to do with Europeans. One of - NOTE: 'One of' - the reasons why it is valued so much stems from an old Buddhist belief that the whiter your skin was, the purer you were in a past life.

    As for the social commentary about white men taking advantage of their positions to woo Korean ladies; people are adults and can make their own decisions. Your moral crusade against it is just that, YOUR moral crusade. YOUR objections with this Korean society. YOURS, not eveyone's.

    P.S. I advise you do a little research on culture shock, because it seems to me like you haven't gotten over yours yet. This is not an article, this a rant.

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    Replies
    1. Well Professor, I'm sorry we're not all as enlightened as you are. You seem eager to prove how liberal you are by agreeing with everything being said to defend Korean culture from critical discussion by Westerners. You are entitled to that, though it does sound naive - and somewhat dishonest. That type of behavior will win you lots of appreciation from defensive Koreans, who are (usually) brainwashed to be dogmatic [read: loyal] cultural/ethnic nationalists. However, it will not win you much respect from educated Westerners, who are (in contrast) trained to engage in independent critical thought.

      You're right: this post was not an attempt at ethnography. It's as much a rant as anything. Living in South Korea can really get under your skin, because it’s an extremely messed up place. Your choices living in Korea are basically to get really depressed (like many Koreans are), rant sometimes, booze your face off (like many Koreans also do), or drink the Kool-Aid and spend your time telling Koreans how unique and beautiful their country is over and over, as you are expected to. If you choose option three, you can almost never say anything bad about Korea, its culture, or people to 99% of the Koreans you know. If you cross the line and relate an honest but unflattering observation, you will probably encounter loud, angry, defensive, nationalist rhetoric and lazy, regurgitated, groupthink slogans. The Party Line is not to be questioned.

      Outsiders in Korea are assigned the role of the admiring visitor, and expected to be intellectual whores. There’s little room for anything else. Western apologists like yourself reinforce that dynamic out of a sense of misplaced liberal tolerance - which this blog has an entire post about:

      The Sometime Naiveté of White Liberal Expats

      Korean culture is often deeply bigoted and ethnocentric. There's A LOT of sexism and racism in Korea - just look at some of those articles linked in the sidebar on the right on this blog. There is also a lot of undiagnosed mental illness, alcoholism, and suicide. In fact, South Korea has the world's highest female suicide rate. Now, imagine showing up into that mix as a white Western guy with an Asian fetish, which is a lot of the white guys in Korea. (Though not all.) Do you think things are going to go in a healthy direction for everyone?

      Since you like academia, and enjoy professorial pontificating, you might enjoy this lecture by a respected Korea Studies PhD. He wrote a popular book that gets at a lot of Korea's twisted issues regarding race, racial identity, sanctioned bigotry, and the rhetorically violent, hardcore nationalism that is basically considered normal here. Korean culture was brought into the modern era through colonization by Japanese fascists, and that influence is still alive and well:

      B.R. Meyers: The Cleanest Race

      Delete
    2. And you in turn blast Korean culture with every opportunity. So unless people are totally agreeing with you, every other point-of-view is incorrect? Talk about a hypocrite.

      Delete
  54. I came to Korea with my then-girlfriend a couple years ago (we are both white Americans), and I must admit that I kinda looked down on the western guys I saw dating Korean girls. Like you, I categorized a lot of them as losers who went after Koreans because it is easy for white guys to date Korean girls. I assumed that due to linguistic or cultural differences, their relationships must be shallow (or just boring).

    But after a year, my American girlfriend and I split up, mostly because I enjoyed working abroad and she wanted to go back to the US. I hadn't ever expected to be single in this country, so dating Korean girls had never crossed my mind. But on checking out the dating scene here, I quickly realized that 98% of the women in this country are (unsurprisingly) Korean. So I met some girls and went on some dates. What I quickly learned is that Korean girls are just like other girls. Some are shy and submissive, some are confident and brazen, some are smart and sassy, and some are cute and sweet. Just like girls of every other nationality. You can't stereotype them or group them all together, just like you can't stereotype all western English teachers in Korea.

    For the last 6 months I've had a steady Korean girlfriend, and despite some occasional linguistic or cultural barriers, our relationship is not different from any other relationship. There is no power imbalance between us. We make each other very happy. We treat each other very well, like most other people who really care about each other. One thing that is special about being with my girlfriend (as opposed to my American ex) is that I am more integrated into Korean culture. I get to practice more of the language, go to places I wouldn't otherwise know about, learn how to cook Korean food, etc. It makes me love living in this country more than before. And yes, she is remarkably attractive - more so than a girl I would probably be able to date in the US. But I am supposed to feel guilty about that? I am a nice guy with a good job and my girlfriend is beautiful, smart, sweet, and also has a good job. I'd say life is good.

    However, one thing that is different between dating a western girl and dating a Korean girl is how people look at us. When I was with my American girlfriend, everyone treated us great and they were so interested to meet and talk to us. Now that I am dating a Korean girl, we get some cold stares wherever we go. Why is this? Because people make assumptions about western/Korean relationships, just like you are doing (and just like I did when I first came here).

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Is because losers like you are full of fetish... Typical of whites

      Delete
  55. How many 'successful' Korean women are really dating white men? I would argue that 'successful' Korean women are an extreme minority among the Korean women dating white men. A great many Korean women dating white men are more marginal types, including less attractive women from working class backgrounds that have family members that would accept an inter-racial relationship because the available Korean option is much worse. That goes for older Korean women, too.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's true that some "marginal types" of women date western guys because the Korean option is much worse, as you point out. But there are also plenty of women in the English teaching field who date western guys because they are interested in western culture. Lots of girls who study abroad during university are open to dating western guys since they've experienced western culture. They might also care less about Korean social norms than other girls.

      I know a few women who are very successful (서울대 grads with jobs in finance), as well as quite attractive, who prefer dating western men because Korean guys are often intimidated by women who are more successful than they are. Not a lot of Korean guys want a strong, confident girlfriend who makes more money than they do.

      As far as families accepting of interracial relationships, yes - working class families might be more accepting. Same with very Christian families (so long as the western guy is also Christian). But most Korean girls don't introduce their boyfriends to their families anyway, at least not until marriage is being discussed.

      Delete
    2. Nah... Korean women dating westerners are just self hating whores... u fetishist westerner.

      Delete
    3. AND a lot of White men are comfortable with dating women who are more successful?! Not so much. Men in GENERAL are not comfortable with women who are more successful, period. This is a world wide phenomenon. White men (especially American men) might not say IT but they are still pretty chauvinistic too. They are just more PC about it. What they say in front of women and what they ACTUALLY say (and think) behind their backs are quite different. Trust me.

      Delete
  56. Huge chip on the shoulder. Good therapy for you though... What did you Korean ex do to you?

    ReplyDelete
  57. How is it that life is so good for an American guy living in Korea? Better than he can find in his own country? This is rather pathetic, isn't it?

    This is especially notable and unfair given the situation that a Korean man would encounter if he decided to move to the US. That would be a terrible move on his part, generally speaking, because he can be discriminated against in terms of employment, will find it much more difficult to find a girlfriend (and she will likely be a fat ugly one even if he does manage to land one), and encounter crime issues unheard of in Korea, and have no universal health care.

    What does this mean for America?

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  58. "And simply put, this is what has always bothered me about a lot of the white guys in Korea. I have watched really lame guys come here, guys I would never wanna hang out with, and basically take their pick of women... exploiting their status..."

    In a word: jealousy, slang: "hating"

    You made zero logical arguments in defense of your premise either, just a bunch of observations and clear bias.

    Your title suggests objectivity, but your narrative clearly identifies a villain.

    Why is it okay for Korean women to chase white guys for money and the opportunity for a ticket to the US, but it is not okay for white guys to acknowledge and capitalize on it?

    "So what is it that attracts insecure emotionally troubled white men to Korea?"

    Who decided that these people are attracted to Korea? You? Based on what? More opinion, that's what. The fact of the matter is, 99% of the white guys in Korea are they because they were told to be there. And that is something I *can* prove.

    "I gotta say it white dudes in Korea - it is really time to step it up."

    You need to step it up. Broad generalizations and butt-hurt self-aggrandizing conclusions prove nothing more than your hurt feelings.

    The internet version of kicking and screaming never looks good on anyone.

    Post a pic of yourself. I have a large sum of money to bet that you are out of shape, balding, and appear to be a beta male.

    Hey, I can make baseless assumptions too, right?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Why is it okay for Korean women to chase white guys for money and the opportunity for a ticket to the US, but it is not okay for white guys to acknowledge and capitalize on it?"

      The vast majority of Korean women would never even consider dating a foreign guy. Mabe it's because I don't live in the expat slum that is Itaewon but I've never noticed this trend.

      Delete
  59. western eyes are NOT the korean ideal. how delusional and narssistic to think koreans want to look like them. whites logic that koreans want bigger eyes = koreans are wannabe whites is simliar to ---> whites find celebrities with small, squintier eyes hotter(i.e josh hartnett,leonardo dicaprio or brad pitt) than celebrities with huge,distinctive western eyes (i.e steve buscemi) = whites are wannabe asians.
    korean women DO NOT get the double eyelid surgery to look like whites. if we koreans wanted to look caucasian's, we would insert some fake browbones to create that signature sunken-looking eyes which is distinctive white feature (double eyelids are prevalent in Koreans too. it's not just a white feature) and would have made our crease to look as big as 1centimeters high like westerners. but no one does that. because that kind of eyes look old, and therefore it is not desired by koreans who usually soughts youth-looking features. see, the two of the MOST popular idols in Korea are yoona from SNSD and suzy from miss A. if you have lived in Korea you would certainly know that i'm telling the truth. they are the most popular member and the most praised for their beauties from guys. are their eyes look ANYTHING western to you? their eyes not particularly the biggest, just moderately sized eyes that are 100% asian looking. some of the other members who have eyes similar to caucasian's isn't that popular compare to them. most korean women want moderately sized eyes just like them. because sometimes their eyes are, maybe little too small. moderately sized eyes like yoona's from SNSD or suzy's from miss A are the most praised type of eyes. actually someone who looks to western isn't popular at all. like the korean-white mixed girl group debuted about a year ago named 쇼콜라, coudln't gain any popularity. search up naver blogs, you can hardly find those infatuated posts which is very frequent for other girl groups but little to none about 쇼콜라. actually blog posts can be seen as yardstick of popularity. and we don't want caucasian skin either. usually white skin is freckled,uneven,rough,lackluster,reddish,has lots of wrinkles,and ages bad. what we call white skin is actress 이연희's pale, smooth and poreless skin like this. http://cfile230.uf.daum.net/image/1965AA1B49EE027B044D67
    also google 박주미. she's 42 but looks 20 years younger. and by the way, 박주미 also underwent plastic surgery(double eyelid). do you think the accomplished look she got look anywhere near caucasian to you? surgery just made her to have more softer and feminine image that's all. nothing caucasian. actually, caucasian-like big eyes in koreans especially done by surgery look extremely weird to the point that they're viewed as low classed, slutty looking eyes which koreans despise. people would sue the doctor if their surgery results like caucasian eyes. see this pic : http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTx4i73pr6oPn8a5qTwcPJfdyxDDUkdjZA1_8pAZNruCfe7V2sm her eyes are more caucasian looking than the celebs i posted above, and she's been called as '성괴' which means, 'plastic surgery monster' and she is national laughing stock. just google '성괴' and you will find the most caucasian looking girls in korea that are laughed and horribly despised and commented by most of all korean internet users.

    ReplyDelete
  60. You sound like a real Beta and a 100% cultural Marxist.

    Pathetic.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    2. F*cking exactly what I thought. His opinions are so antiquated, like a liberal hippie from the 60s. The power of whiteness....wtf? White men control all of the money in the world??? Lmfao. Do some research.....the last time I checked, Jewish men were notorious for running the world of global finance, capital markets and investment banking; and have far-reaching influence in the political sphere. America is the only place where being white can make you lose a government contract, college spot, or job because a less qualified non-white is competing with you (a.k.a. "affirmative action").

      This guy even explicitly states that he has a problem with white men getting so much and enjoying themselves. This is just jealous, hateful drivel at it's finest. The sad thing is that people like this guy in the west are in abundance and could speak such non-sense in a university environment without anyone blinking an eye. South Korea sounds like a nicer place if white men can enjoy themselves without being condemned for having a good time.....it seems like a crime here in america.

      Delete
  61. "I have watched really lame guys come here, guys I would never wanna hang out with, and basically take their pick of women."

    The most important phrase in this article. It eloquently expresses the author's jealousy and rage at men he feels socially and morally superior to enjoying something he can't have, because he has a girlfriend.
    This article is basically just one big quixotic jealous rant.

    ReplyDelete
  62. This is a long time ago, but I felt I had to comment. I would agree that this 'white worship' is prevalent in countries in SE Asia too. I say this as a female from one of those countries, and applaud you for actually being able to see it for what it is.

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  63. This article is full of so much shaming language that I couldn't read the entire thing. You're mad because guys *you don't like* have their pick of women in Korea? Really dude? Because they don't meet *your* standards, they're not allowed to date? Pfft.

    If white men are eager to date Korean women it is probably because they are easier to deal with than Ameriskanks!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Im from an Asian community and ill give you a massive tip: Korean women (like most Asian women) might be easier to deal with in the beginning, but as time goes by they can become much HARDER to deal with.They can turn crazy on you when you least expect it. And if you think all Asian women are going to be as pretty as those Asian girls you see online then you are wrong. Most normal Asian women have average looks at best. They may be thin most of the time, but their face is usually JUST ok. I think its usually the less appealing and more insecure white guys who have an Asian fetish.

      Delete
  64. The writer has some things right and a lot of things wrong. Upper class Korean girls are far more tied to family pressures and rules in general (not all) and are expected to be paired with Korean educated successful men who are at the same social level or higher. India is the same if not worse. But, in Korea the lower down the educational and economic scale you go you will hear more and more than these girls prefer Western men. The same is true in Countries like Japan. Western and particulary American men are considered more caring, respectful, and considerate. These are generalisations based on much personal experience with Korean men and women as well as mixed race couples.. all Western men with Korean women. It is hard to generalize too much though. Things are changing rapidly. As to the prejudicial attitudes coming as a result of the Korean War I disagree. This is only partly true. Korea was an extremely racist and isolated Nation for Centuries. It was rigidly structured based on Confucian ideology for longer than China even. The world is getting smaller fast though and old ideas are dying out. As to admitting liking certain girls by race or Nationality or whatever what is wrong with that? Korean girls in general are great. I think it is partly because they have been repressed and put down for so long by Korean men that American men by contrast seem so appealing to many of them and given the choice..which they dont have unless they leave Korea ...they would prefer an American man. As for me American girls are conflicted about what their role is in general so they can be tough to live with...generalizing again. I prefer Korean girls and have no problem admitting it. They have so many good qualities and are just fun to be with.

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  65. I think Korean women are the worst when it comes to white fetishizing compared to the other E. Asian countries (Taiwan, Japan, and China). That shit is weird.

    ReplyDelete
  66. You are right except for you choice of the word "worst." It's a matter of perspective. As for China that is a huge generalization. Chinese are so diverse as a people. But, in general you are right and it is the fault of Korean men and a rigidly Chauvinistic culture....but it is changing fast. Korean girls make wonderful wives and friends....as a general rule. Chinese are mercenary...as a general rule (and having a Tiger Mom for a wife is not easy to deal with unless you like that kind of single minded obsessiveness) ....no experience with Japanese girls to speak of at least not recent enough to know if my comments would still be valid.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No one nationality makes a better husband or wife. Thats a stereotype and falling for stereotypes often leads to disaster. Divorce rates are alread high, and according to some research it is even higher among people who have biggwr age gaps or people who come from completely different cultural/ethnic backgrounds. That doesn't mean it can't work, but you do have to be cautious and not fall for stereotypes. Most white guy + asian girl relationships I have seen started of well and ended horribly.

      Delete
  67. I know one white dude who dated and married a Korean woman. She left him but they have a kid so he's basically grovelling for custody and too cowardly to ask for a divorce but still chases after girls. This guy lives the life, going home taking care and washing his daughter's butt while his wife fucks around.
    Who wouldn't leave Canada for that life?

    ReplyDelete
  68. I prefer white women. I don't care what country they are from because there are beautiful people in all countries, though I do think that Eastern European, Balkan and Scandinavian women are often very beautiful - they're not submissive but Im not pathetic and insecure to look for someone submissive. I think personality is more important. You have to be able to get along with someone, so its best to have things in common and to be able to understand each other. I don't have an Asian "fetish" because I don't find Asian women attractive at all, but thats just my personal taste and nothing personal against anyone.

    ReplyDelete
  69. This reminds me of these 2 white girls I know - one only wants to date an Asian guy and the other one only wants black guys. I don't know why.

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  70. Korean women for the most part are pretty terrible.
    Attractive on the outside, maybe...but morally and
    personality-wise, disgusting. I hope that the white
    expat guys take out all the trash in Korea, so that
    the real Korean women who are good and decent remain.
    If I were in government, I would recommend exile for
    those women who date the white creeps and the fetishists,
    and medical sterilization if they refuse to leave Korea.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Guess u r not Korean. I am one of those Korean women that you find "morally and personality-wise, disgusting." By looking at your picture I can see why Korean women would not be attracted to you.

      Delete
  71. thank you for showing us your perceived "complicated" and "dominant" white presence. if inter-racial relationship promotes cross cultural understanding, then why don't white girls try to date korean guys? there're too many white guy-korean woman couples already. this is what I call "imbalance".

    ReplyDelete
  72. Oh my Lord. You have it so wrong! I am offended as a Korean Woman. Before you judge a race and culture do your research and live in the country for than a few months before you make judgements on a society as a whole. Try to make friends with the real people in the country not just some of the other expats that live in the country. Try going out with a native girl and try to truly understand the culture, manners and MIND of the country before you make any judgements.

    ReplyDelete
  73. you guys should see this other site, or blog, it's called Rokdrop.korea or Rokdrop.com. that site is a blog for u.s. military service members and former g.i's., marines who served in south korea. a lot of those american soldiers fiercely defend their korean girlfriends/wives on that site. i had posted there a few times in the last few weeks, and i asked why those american soldiers had the asian korean fetish, yellow fever? man, so many got mad at me for asking, one guy called me a racist, the other threatened me saying he would like to give me a good beating to humble me. i told him to fuck himself and eat his own shit. if you post on that site saying anything about korean women or other asian women, you would get flagged off, your post deleted. what i learned from the posters in that site is that many of the men who post there are bitter, violent, alcoholics, wife beaters, and in denial bigots themselves. one guy said fillipinas are better and prettier but they are trafficked by chinese pimps to u.s. bases in korea, working in bars and brothels to service american military people. it was disgusting to read how many of those g.i's defended this lifestyle, and the white american soldiers claimed that they are there to have fun and do what they want to those girls. they call them the term they use, 'juicy girls', which basically means hookers working in a bar, korean and filipina women and some thai women too. it was tragic to read. you should check that website.

    ReplyDelete
  74. I am not going to spend a ton of time with this, because op has some pretty warped yet commonly held beliefs that will probably continue.

    Point 1: American men do not like modern feminist American women. The average woman today in the US bangs Alpha males from the age of 16 - 27 (when she realizes she needs to get married,) then marries a beta male, then continues to bang alpha males till they will no longer have her. Often this leads to her beta husband unknowingly raising some alphas kids. Then the wife will divorce because she realizes that she "is not happy" and move up to a higher monetary beta, or a much older alpha.

    Think I am wrong? Nope, I am a divorce attny and see this same scenario 10 - 15 times a week.

    American men are for the most part fed up with the ridiculous way that women act today in the US. They are also fed up with going into marriages, getting cheated on, and then paying alimony for the next 20 years because the woman decides to leave.

    You want to know why so many men are going to Korean women? It is because they have not been corrupted with this evil feminist junk and they still have quality family values. No man wants to marry a loud, obnoxious, know it all alpha female. Those that do are sad. Dont believe me? Go ask your Dad if men were happier and home lives were better before or after feminism.

    Then get rid of all of this pc feminist thinking, I read your post and you sound so brainwashed and whipped, the men of 20 years ago wouldnt even recognize you as being a man.

    ReplyDelete
  75. Korean shallow as mud puddle, gold digging, plastic surgery sporting, attention seeking c**ts are a dime a dozen! From Busan to Seoul this is the most disgusting place I've ever lived. Just watch K-town on youtube.... This is a mass of delusional individuals.... How many times are you willing to shoot yourself in the foot?

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  76. as long as asian men dont bitch about white men dating asian women everything is fine.

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  77. I ALWAYS SEE WHITE TRASH WITH ASIAN GIRLS .. HOLDING HANDS AND WALKING DOWN THE STREET. I feel like throwing up ewwww yukkkkk. White men are so fing ugly giant freaks of nature who look like old man with white hair how can they even be attractive? they aint even good entertainers.

    ReplyDelete

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    ReplyDelete
  80. Hi My name is Bruno Rico' just want to share my experience with the world on how i got my love back and saved my marriage... I was married for 7years with 2kids and we lived happily until things started getting ugly and we had fights and arguments almost every time... it got worse at a point that she filed for divorce... I tried my best to make her change her mind & stay with me cause i loved her with all my heart and didn't want to loose her but everything just didn't work out... she moved out of the house and still went ahead to file for divorce... I pleaded and tried everything but still nothing worked. The breakthrough came when someone introduced me to this wonderful, great spell caster who eventually helped me out... I have never been a fan of things like this but just decided to try reluctantly cause I was desperate and left with no choice... He did special prayers and used roots and herbs... Within 7 days she called me and was sorry for all the emotional trauma she had cost me, moved back to the house and we continue to live happily, the kids are happy too and we are expecting our third child. I have introduced him to a lot of couples with problems across the world and they have had good news... Just thought I should share my experience cause I strongly believe someone out there need's it... You can email him via eromosalelovespell@outlook.com Don't give up just yet, the different between 'Ordinary' & 'Extra-Ordinary' is the 'Extra' so make extra effort to save your marriage/relationship if it's truly worth it. you can also call (Dr Eromosale) on +2347034673139.

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  81. "First of all, you speak English fluently", yeah after 15 years of studying.

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  82. Hello every one, I really want to share my testimony to the hearing of every body on this site, December 2013, I saw a post on a particular site shearing her testimony on how the great spell caster brought back her ex who name is Dr.Okalo so I just see it common and i said let me see what will happen because my husband left me and my three kids, i and my husband was married for ten year living happily, he left me and go for another woman so when i saw the post, i contacted the spell caster on his email and he told me not to worry that my husband will come back to me in three days after once he finish casting the love spell and to my greatest surprise, i now have my husband back to me again and i want to use the medium to let every body know that this is real and if you are out here having this same problem please contact the great spell caster on his email now because he can do the unexpected. Choosenlovespell@gmail.com

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  83. I have be married for nine years my husband and i where living happily and just two months ago my husband ment his ex girl friend whom he had in school days and all of a sudden he started dating her again and he never cared about his family again all he does is to stay late at night and when he come's back he will just lie to me that he hard some fault with his car,there was this faithful day i caught the both of them in a shop,i walked to them and told the girl to stay of my husband and when he came home that evening he beat me up even despite the fact that i was pregnant he was just kicking and warning me to never point a finger on his girlfriend again,i have suffered too much in the hand of a cheating husband but thank to Dr.Okalo whom i got from a blog site after a long search for a real spell caster i was so happy that he fufilled all what he said in just less than three days after the spell was casted they quareled and he broke up with the girl and his senses are fully back and he now care and love me like he have never done before and if you are their suffering from a broken marriage or your husband or ex cheats? you can email (Choosenlovespell@gmail.com) his spells are pure and very powerful without any doubt.

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  84. omg you are actually psychotic. you're the type of loser who never really had anything going for them in his own country and is trying to overcompensate in one that isn't yours.

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  85. HEAVENS GATE SOLUTIONS TEMPLE


    DEAR FRIENDS,

    MY NAME IS DR THOMPSON GABA OSEMWEGIE, AM A SPELL CASTER AND I CAN CAST A SPELL ON YOUR BEHALF REGARDING:


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    MONEY,

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    CONTACT ME TODAY AND I SHALL CAST A SPELL FOR YOU , TELL ME WHAT IS IT YOU WANT AND I SHALL GO ABOUT MY WORK,
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    BELOW ARE MY CONTACT DETAILS:
    WEBSITE:http://heavensgatesolutionstemple.yolasite.com
    EMAIL: heavensgatesolutionstemple@gmail.com
    MOBILE NUMBER: +2348154270647

    ReplyDelete
  86. DO YOU NEED A LOAN ?................IF YES CONTACT ME TODAY VIA
    EMAIL: macthompson200@gmail.com
    WEBSITE:macthompsonloanlendersinc2013.webs.com

    LOAN APPLICATION FORM TO BE FILLED AND RETURNED

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    Date:.........................

    NOTE: Please attach a copy of either your Driver's license, National identity card, Work permit or Residence permit.

    ReplyDelete
  87. Thanks to Dr oshoum, i am very grateful to him for bringing my Man back after two years of broken marriage because of pregnancy problem. I temmie love my man and he is my source of finance. we love to have kids and his dad want to see him bear kids before he can will his property to him but i could not bear him a child dew to miss_carried then he decide to live me for another another lady. i search every where for him and i could not find, i read different book on broken marriage just to encourage my self, i visit different site then a friend on face book( nora warland) direct me to Dr oshogum with his email address OSHOGUMSPELLTEMPLE@LIVE.COM, than i contact him and tell him my problem and i did what he ask me to do after two day my handsband called me and ask of my location. To the glory of Dr. oshogum my Husband is back my life and the lady she married did not also bear him a child all for the help of Dr. oshogum. Now i have a baby boy for him and still expecting another child by july.
    for any marriage or relationship problem contact oshogum now with oshogumspelltemple@live.com
    contact oshogum now with oshogumspelltemple@live.com

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